Making the news today....

[Big J]

On 02/09/2023 at 09:32, trigger_andy said:

Yet all the fruit and Tattie pickers you’re indigenous back then. We had thriving apprenticeships throughout the U.K. that was then decimated by a flood of cheap pre-qualified European workers.

 

We now see a resurgence in apprenticeships and this is primarily due to greedy companies no longer having easy access to cheap foreign labour and now having to look to long term workforce development. (I see you cover this in your next paragraph but in my opinion the facts don’t tally with your POV)

 

My dad works harder than your dad.  

No, I know you do. And I know agriculture is hard graft. So when the EU allows those from Eastern Europe to undermine the already meagre wages of course the indigenous population will look elsewhere for employment. 
 

I live in the heart of Angus, the breadbasket of Scotland. I’m surrounded by Farms and Farmers. My friends and acquaintances are Farmers and they also employ local lads. Now that I think about it I see very few Europeans in their workforce. 
 

There is still the bus loads of seasonal workers doing the unskilled laborious work of course. But they do it because it’s financially viable for them. If I could move to a nice 1st world country for the summer and make multiple times the wage I could at home then I’d do that too. The only way we can have incredibly cheap fresh produce is by paying the workers pennies on the pound but at the same time those pennies on the pound are actual pounds for them where they come from. For an indigenous workforce to re-enter this market the wages would have to reflect the living costs of the country they are working/living in. Until that happens we’ll have those that believe Brexit was a bad idea calling these people lazy when I’m fact they are not willing to subject themselves to slave like conditions for pennies.

 

And look where that’s got them….

 

Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime | Reuters

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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Sweden has failed to integrate the vast numbers of immigrants it has taken in over the past two decades, leading to parallel...

 

 

I don't even think with higher wages that Brits would entertain the idea of fruit/veg picking. The issue is that it has to be tied to production rate and like with chainsaw operation, the difference between the best and the worst is massive and hourly rates can't be paid in such situations.

 

Another point potentially worth noting is that Brits aren't very good at sticking at one job for extended periods of time. I recall seeing a TV show where German and British employees swapped jobs for a period. I don't remember the name of the programme, but the German company was Faber Castell (pencil maker). They spoke to an employee who operated a specific machine and had done so for over ten years. He was perfectly happy. The job was semi skilled, but he was very good at it, had excellent work conditions and took pride in his work.

 

It is more common in the UK (and I include myself in this) for employees to see each job only as an entry on their CV. A progression to the next opportunity. That short-termist approach to employment means it's unlikely for UK workers to stick at fruit and veg picking for any period of time as they'll be looking at the employment horizon beyond.

 

It's a generalisation I know, but I do feel that there is truth in it. I found it to be the case with chainsaw operatives in the UK. It was very difficult to find quality cutters who were technically adept, hard working and without ego. The best cutters were running or wanted to run their own squads, and there were a lot of lads that thought they were brilliant when really they weren't. 

 

As regards immigration here in Sweden, no one will argue that it was done perfectly. Too many in too short a time is the consensus. The problems are obviously worse in the cities and we don't see the kinds of issues that they do. 

 

I really like that our school has 30% kids with parents born outside of Sweden. It's about 10-12% German/Austrian, and my daughters are at school with kids from Syria, the Baltic states, the UK, almost every country in Europe and even America. 

[Puffingbilly413]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

don't even think with higher wages that Brits would entertain the idea of fruit/veg picking. The issue is that it has to be tied to production rate and like with chainsaw operation, the difference between the best and the worst is massive and hourly rates can't be paid in such situations

But that's exactly how fruit picking is paid isn't it? A guaranteed statutory minimum wage that's effectively topped up by a piece rate. So if you want to earn more by working harder/faster then you can.

[trigger_andy]

3 hours ago, Big J said:

I don't even think with higher wages that Brits would entertain the idea of fruit/veg picking. The issue is that it has to be tied to production rate and like with chainsaw operation, the difference between the best and the worst is massive and hourly rates can't be paid in such situations.

So what in your opinion has changed from when I was a youth when this work was all done by indigenous British people to now when it’s primarily carried out by cheap European Labour? Be both know the answer to that but you’ll continue to ignore reality.

 

3 hours ago, Big J said:

Another point potentially worth noting is that Brits aren't very good at sticking at one job for extended periods of time.

Empirically I don’t see what you’re saying reflected in everyday life. The plumber I know is still a plumber, the sparkie I know is still a sparkie, the farmers are still farmers. I’ve personally been with the same company for 25 years now. 
 

3 hours ago, Big J said:

regards immigration here in Sweden, no one will argue that it was done perfectly. Too many in too short a time is the consensus. The problems are obviously worse in the cities and we don't see the kinds of issues that they do. 

You can down play the utter failure of mass migration in Sweden all you like. Again, reality does not reflect your point of view as the link I provided from Swedens very own PM shows. The reality is far darker than he dares mention. 
 

3 hours ago, Big J said:

really like that our school has 30% kids with parents born outside of Sweden. It's about 10-12% German/Austrian, and my daughters are at school with kids from Syria, the Baltic states, the UK, almost every country in Europe and even America. 

When my kids went to the British International in Stavanger is was a very multicultural school. It was great and the kids thrived. Thankfully my kids will never have to experience a multinational school in the U.K. 

[trigger_andy]

14 hours ago, daveatdave said:

these workers are getting paid at least the minimum wage plus bonuses accommodation on site spend little of their wages in the Nabour hood so they are not on penne's in the pound.

if they are getting bussed in there will be a gang Marster who no doubt be taking a cut of there wages and transport costs   

Trying to decider this post gave me cancer. 

[Johnsond]

Channel migrant crossings hit 2023 high, with 872 in one day despite Suella Braverman small boats policy blitz

APPLE.NEWS

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872 people were detected crossing in 15 small boats on Saturday, taking the total for the year to...

872 illegals in one day that will need processing, housing and feeding 🤷‍♂️absolute insanity yet the left and the likes of amnesty international would literally accept every single one.  Bollocks to political correctness what we are seeing is literally a collapse of any form of law and order at our borders. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Johnsond

[Big J]

1 hour ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

But that's exactly how fruit picking is paid isn't it? A guaranteed statutory minimum wage that's effectively topped up by a piece rate. So if you want to earn more by working harder/faster then you can.

 

Yes, and because the work rate is low, the incentive to work is low. I used to love piece rate when cutting as I was younger, very fit and very good at my narrow niche (1st and 2nd thinnings on hardwood). I'm older and achier now, and whilst arguably fitter, only within the realms of cycling.

 

28 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

So what in your opinion has changed from when I was a youth when this work was all done by indigenous British people to now when it’s primarily carried out by cheap European Labour? Be both know the answer to that but you’ll continue to ignore reality.

 

Empirically I don’t see what you’re saying reflected in everyday life. The plumber I know is still a plumber, the sparkie I know is still a sparkie, the farmers are still farmers. I’ve personally been with the same company for 25 years now. 
 

You can down play the utter failure of mass migration in Sweden all you like. Again, reality does not reflect your point of view as the link I provided from Swedens very own PM shows. The reality is far darker than he dares mention. 
 

When my kids went to the British International in Stavanger is was a very multicultural school. It was great and the kids thrived. Thankfully my kids will never have to experience a multinational school in the U.K. 

 

It's hard to say exactly what's changed. Kids spend a lot more time in the virtual world and the things that we grew up doing to avoid boredom were often quite hard work (like fishing, building dens, sports). Consequently, we probably grew up fitter and stronger (on average) than the average kid today.

 

Additionally, in the age before internet, our horizons were more limited. We'd be more inclined to be happy in our chosen job because 10,000 other careers weren't being dangled infront of us every day. This is speculation, but it's almost as if a plethora of choice can work counter to one's happiness.

 

I can only reflect on my own experiences in Sweden, and the experiences of those around me. Where we live is (figuratively) a million miles from Stockholm, Malmö and Gothenburg. As I said, the consensus publically is that it was too many in too short a time, but here in our community, it's generally a good thing. Plus, as an immigrant, it's hard for me to complain about the border policy of my chosen country!

 

I think it's sad that you're happy about your children not experiencing a multicultural education. I am personally very happy that my children are exposed to different languages and people from different cultures every day. Whilst we live in a small village, it reminds them that we're part of a larger world.

[trigger_andy]

19 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Channel migrant crossings hit 2023 high, with 872 in one day despite Suella Braverman small boats policy blitz

APPLE.NEWS

---

872 people were detected crossing in 15 small boats on Saturday, taking the total for the year to...

872 illegals in one day that will need processing, housing and feeding 🤷‍♂️absolute insanity yet the left and the likes of amnesty international would literally accept every single one.  Bollocks to political correctness what we are seeing is literally a collapse of any form of law and order at our borders. 

It’s not possible to build enough houses to home these illegals arriving daily. Yet it’s the same degenerates that welcome these economic migrants with open arms are outraged at the housing crisis and demand it be addressed. To think these single digit IQ leftards are free to vote.  

[Johnsond]

13 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Yes, and because the work rate is low, the incentive to work is low. I used to love piece rate when cutting as I was younger, very fit and very good at my narrow niche (1st and 2nd thinnings on hardwood). I'm older and achier now, and whilst arguably fitter, only within the realms of cycling.

 

 

It's hard to say exactly what's changed. Kids spend a lot more time in the virtual world and the things that we grew up doing to avoid boredom were often quite hard work (like fishing, building dens, sports). Consequently, we probably grew up fitter and stronger (on average) than the average kid today.

 

Additionally, in the age before internet, our horizons were more limited. We'd be more inclined to be happy in our chosen job because 10,000 other careers weren't being dangled infront of us every day. This is speculation, but it's almost as if a plethora of choice can work counter to one's happiness.

 

I can only reflect on my own experiences in Sweden, and the experiences of those around me. Where we live is (figuratively) a million miles from Stockholm, Malmö and Gothenburg. As I said, the consensus publically is that it was too many in too short a time, but here in our community, it's generally a good thing. Plus, as an immigrant, it's hard for me to complain about the border policy of my chosen country!

 

I think it's sad that you're happy about your children not experiencing a multicultural education. I am personally very happy that my children are exposed to different languages and people from different cultures every day. Whilst we live in a small village, it reminds them that we're part of a larger world.

You’re an immigrant J but a white male western immigrant with a family, whilst you may not be a practicing Christian you still carry in you the values most of us have been brought up with. Hard work, tolerance,the rule of law not religion, I presume you view your wife and women in general as equals etc etc. Maybe if your children ( in particular daughters )were exposed to the multicultural society and the abuse that came with it as has happened in numerical uk areas you’d have a more cynical opinion of this uncontrolled illegal immigration that we are witnessing here. 

[5thelement]

36 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Channel migrant crossings hit 2023 high, with 872 in one day despite Suella Braverman small boats policy blitz

APPLE.NEWS

---

872 people were detected crossing in 15 small boats on Saturday, taking the total for the year to...

872 illegals in one day that will need processing, housing and feeding 🤷‍♂️absolute insanity yet the left and the likes of amnesty international would literally accept every single one.  Bollocks to political correctness what we are seeing is literally a collapse of any form of law and order at our borders. 

Wasn’t Brexit supposed to put an end to all this, regain control of our Borders and other such bo**ocks?

Ive said it before, the likes of vegan Karen down the health food shop do not have any say over what the Royal Navy can do in the channel, that’s down to the people in charge, the people you voted for.

Wouldn’t it be better to hold them to account rather than continually pointing the finger at everyone else?

[Johnsond]

5 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

Wasn’t Brexit supposed to put an end to all this, regain control of our Borders and other such bo**ocks?

Ive said it before, the likes of vegan Karen down the health food shop do not have any say over what the Royal Navy can do in the channel, that’s down to the people in charge, the people you voted for.

Wouldn’t it be better to hold them to account rather than continually pointing the finger at everyone else?

I’d not the statement regarding law and order not clear enough?? 
The left and the numerous charities etc answer to this is to speed up the asylum system which you don’t have to be a genius to work what that will mean in reality. When the Tories or Labour actually have the balls to come up with a real plan it will be a refreshing change. The opportunity to hold them to account will come at the general election. “ the people I voted for” 😂you mean the majority !! democracy’s a bitch for sure.