council contracts, are they legal?

[Richard 1234]

I also learned that Landscape Services who do a lot of the council work is owned by Kent County Council. I'm not sure how that would stand up if someone challenged it given they win a lot of the 5 -10 year contracts when they go out for tender?

 

 

They are a known "company".

Contracts managers for big contracts may be frightened to use smaller unknown companies as if it all goes wrong who gets the blame?

[Philip Anderson]

Ian Flatters has mentioned this before and i reckon it is a brilliant way to go:thumbup:

 

Joint ventures are fine but in my experience don't work as someone has to take the lead and with councils carry the can !how do you share the profit / loss?

Council contracts might give you volume if you want it but do not always lead to great profit as your only as good as your last tender / contract. price wise you can also loose your hat as Connaught found in all their contracts they passed all the criteria limited company etc but collapsed like a pack of cards .

To my mind small can be beautiful .

[Mesterh]

Timber lorry eh.

 

I think I would be asking for a bit more clarification as to what they want or just out down yes we do have a timber lorry. As my transit moves timber do that's that sorted.

 

I'm surprised they bother asking as a lot of contracts no matter what they are for get carried out by management companies.

[Tom D]

One framework that we are on has 4 companies on it, the other 3 are all bigger than us, one was kicked off the framework after they sent 2 guys to a storm damage job with a pole saw and no ppe! The other two have no cutters and just subby guys in. We are the only proper tree firm on the framework. Its down to down you fill out the forms, these big firms just tick yes on the PQQ in the knowledge that they can subby anything that they need in..

 

IME the small to medium firms do the best tree work and are the most efficient, the large ones usually have underpaid under qualified staff if they have any staff at all. Their tenders look great though as they have professional staff to complete them.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Basically my local council demands that in order to be eligible to tender for council tree work you must have the full arsenal of equipment including a timber lorry. A firm recently turned up to reduce some council trees close to my house, no need for anything other than a saw and a chipper, certainly no sign of a logging lorry. Surely its about what you bring to the job, not what's sitting in your yard, and does it really matter if you own or rent the equipment. Does this sort of policy:confused1: discriminate against smaller companies, thus increasing the chasm between the big and smaller firms, giving the big firms the monopoly on council work?

 

I would suggest it's about being suitably equipped and having the resources available to tackle the bigger jobs.

Not discriminatory, at least not directly, as I know a few smaller firms that have lots of heavy duty machinery including a timber lorry...or at least a timber trailer and crane.

 

Don't dwell, therein lies madness...but I do understand your frustration not least as often the associated tree-work standards they will accept are mediocre (even if the documentation refers to BS3998.)

 

Cheers..

Paul

[flatyre]

cheers for the replies guys, its a good point that larger firms have more equipment, staff etc. But surely means more overheads to be covered in the price? Say a council has a large area of forest needing cleared, larger firms can put in a better price than one man bands who will need to hire in a lot of heavy equipment like logging lorries thus pushing up their price, so the big firms win the big contracts. But when it comes to the smaller jobs, the smaller firms have the upper hand as no specialised equipment is needed, though the bigger firms still need to cover their expensive gear even if its not being used. The big firms win the big jobs and the small firms win the small jobs, would that not make it fair for everyone?

[peatff]

Our parish council has a lad and dad who do odd jobs round the local amenities and I think they only have a Rav4 with a trailer, a petrol strimmer and a Stihl 181. They still get the job done hiring a flail mower and other bits when needed, plodding along at their own pace.

[Benny4817]

its a story of many ends, but you will find that Council its self and Parish Council are separate bodies , so the Parish will not be as tight with this and that and will be more inclined to hire local people as thats the idea of a parish to help and promote the Parish they have duristiction over

[treequip]

cheers for the replies guys, its a good point that larger firms have more equipment, staff etc. But surely means more overheads to be covered in the price? Say a council has a large area of forest needing cleared, larger firms can put in a better price than one man bands who will need to hire in a lot of heavy equipment like logging lorries thus pushing up their price, so the big firms win the big contracts. But when it comes to the smaller jobs, the smaller firms have the upper hand as no specialised equipment is needed, though the bigger firms still need to cover their expensive gear even if its not being used. The big firms win the big jobs and the small firms win the small jobs, would that not make it fair for everyone?

 

Well that argument assumes equal volumes of work in big and small works which isn't likely. It also takes no account of the fact that the overheads on a tranny and chipper outfit operating off your mums driveway are considerably lower than others

 

The main contractor calls the shots and if you want to be in the game you play by their rules

[peatff]

its a story of many ends, but you will find that Council its self and Parish Council are separate bodies , so the Parish will not be as tight with this and that and will be more inclined to hire local people as thats the idea of a parish to help and promote the Parish they have duristiction over

 

That's how it works, the district council has it's own team and runs the local Rangers as well. They have everything you could think of including log mill, stump grinders and chippers. I like their open weekend at Elvaston Castle where they showcase their work and a lot of other exhibitors put their wares and skills on display.