One for the stove installers

[bobh]

My mum in Somerset has been having a bit of building work done on her cottage recently and the builder said that she should really get the chimney lined.

The current wood burner is an unbranded one (I would imagine it was a cheap import knowing how tight my dad was) that my dad fitted about 1990, its in an inglenook and the stove pipe goes through the register plate and that's it, never been a problem with it in the last 24 years but if it needs a liner then so be it.

Mum phoned a local stove centre and they came out to quote

The chap asked mum if she had the paperwork that came with the stove, no says mum, its over 20 years old.

Bloke says he can't install a liner without the paperwork and then tries to get her to buy a new stove!

Is there any reason not to install a liner on a stove without the paperwork? Or was this company just trying to rip off an 81 year old widow.

[Goaty]

It is all paperwork now. A friend had to find their double glazing invoice to sell the house.

 

The bloke could probably check it over and certify it. But would rather earn a bit more than take liability. Thats my view. My parents had their stove replaced last year. Installer moaned about what an illegal bomb previous one was. Then had other work done on heating system since. The plumber that installed it said the back boiler couldn't have a drain tap on it in case a numpty turned it. The other plumber said it was stupid to not have one!!!

[CJM]

I've just had a stove installed I insusted in a flue liner just for ease of cleaning and the fact I wasn't to sure about the condition of my chimney. If it he chimney leaking I don't see the need to get a liner installed.

 

With the no make stove being over 20 years old it might be worth replacing it for a more efficent one could save money in the long run but saying that if your mother is happy with how it performs keep it, and I can't see why the installer can't instal a liner without the stoves paper work unless it's some daft hetas regulation

[spuddog0507]

Hi can i just say this, there is an old saying that i think is very true if its not broken dont fix it ? if the stove has been ok since 1990 and worked fine WHY does in now need a flue liner ? Mine is of simular age and fitted the same way and works as good today as it did the day we fitted it.

[agg221]

You do need something above the register plate in an inglenook.

 

Stoves are much more efficient than an open fire, so the smoke is cold. This means that any creosote in the smoke can often condense on the brickwork before it goes out of the top (unlike an inefficient open fire where the smoke is usually hot enough to carry it out, and definitely is if you burn the odd bag of smokeless to dry it out).

 

The condensed creosote then soaks through the brickwork. If you get a burning smut up there at some point and it happens to lodge on the surface it is possible for it to ignite the creosote and then slowly smoulder its way through the brickwork to the other side. If it happens across something combustible on the other side, such as wooden joists/rafters, then it can set fire to them. A similar problem has been traced as the cause of the significant increase in fires in thatched houses.

 

I believe you shouldn't need paperwork for the installation, since it pre-dates the change in building regulations, but if the model was still on the market after the change then someone picky could cause problems. Otherwise it may be worth a few phone calls to find someone suitable to do it.

 

Alec

[mixedangased]

I've just fitted a s/h stove to my place a was signed off by the building inspector no probs,

And I don't have any paperwork .just got to pay the fee for building regs.

Some of these stove installers take the pee.

Put in a building notice and do it yourself and save a fortune .

if you really want a flue.

And as long as the chimneys ok there's no regs that say you need one.look up the regs on your local council site.

[Mull]

Hi can i just say this, there is an old saying that i think is very true if its not broken dont fix it ? if the stove has been ok since 1990 and worked fine WHY does in now need a flue liner ? Mine is of simular age and fitted the same way and works as good today as it did the day we fitted it.

 

 

Yep, "leave well alone" is another old saying. Builder must be looking for work. Having said that, they say stoves run most efficiently with correct diameter flue, but if you're happy with stove then leave it alone.

[Alycidon]

Most if not all Hetas installers would not touch that stove.

 

They are now legally obliged to carry out checks to ascertain that the stove is suitable for what it is intended for and is safe to use.

 

A CE plate on a new stove (now also a legal requirement) proves that the stove manufacturer has had the stove independently tested. The stove is by the guys admission likely to be a cheap Chinese import, the life of these is usually around 7 years, to have had one do 25 years is remarkable.

 

If a Hetas registered installer installed it, signed it off and it failed and as a result someone was killed through carbon monoxide poisoning then he would be liable.

 

Hetas advise strongly walking away from such jobs. The best way forward is to get someone to install it providing it has no obvious issues and get a building inspector in to sign it off.

 

If you want advice on the building regs PM me and I will post you a link.

 

A

[wrsni]

When we fitted the Burley a year ago we were told by all and sundry that a flue liner would be essential but nobody could give me a decent reason why other than the normal "well you just have to" type answer.

 

So once I'd figured that I could fit the liner ok anyway after the stove was in, I decided to give it a go without one and there has been no problems whatsoever. Chimney draws well, is staying clean, I've been checking the top of the stove for deposits or tar running down and there's nothing. The really strange thing is that the chimney breast gets warmer with the stove than with the open fire which probably explains why it's working so well but I thought it should be cooler.

 

Now I'm not suggesting for one second that no one needs a flue liner, there are many scenarios described above where it's probably essentially. But by the same token it's obviously not necessary everywhere and the problem seems to be as usual that while there is no scarcity of regulation and "approved experts" there is a serious lack of people with the honesty and knowledge to look at a particular situation and judge it properly. In this case however, the fact that it's run for nearly 25 years with no trouble should tell you something.

[wrsni]

The stove is by the guys admission likely to be a cheap Chinese import, the life of these is usually around 7 years, to have had one do 25 years is remarkable.

 

Were the Chinese making stoves 25 years ago? Is it not possible like so many other things that what would have been seen as "bargain basement" 25 years ago would now be "premium quality".

 

The fact that it's still working as well as the day it was bought should yet again tell you something about it!