Bio chain oil

[swinny]

There's a couple of folk on bere using normal veg oil with no problems.

 

The thing is you can always get info off here, but you need to try for yourself not just be sheep.

 

I'm using just veggie oil at the moment, had some big jobs on in the last month with lots of cutting, no problems here.

 

Empty oil tank.and swill with fuel then top up with veg oil and away

[wyk]

Which supports my argument, that using raw vegetable oil should not be universally recommended.

 

With regards to storing saws for extended periods with oil and fuel: It isn't a problem if you use Alkylate fuel (like Aspen and STIHL MotoMix), and either mineral based, or bio oil with added antioxidants (e.g. Stihl BioPlus), which I have done myself for more than 5 years now.

 

In all the cases, the owners only stipulated 'cooking oil' as far as I could discern. We are saying 'rapeseed' specifically for a reason. That particular vegetable oil has qualities perfect for use on a chainsaw. Using any other oil may invite issues.

 

As for oxidation, etc. You can not leave rapeseed or any vegetable oil without stabilizers in your equipment for any extended length of time without chancing gumming issues etc.

 

Our advice was for professionals. I admit I can forget that some people on these forums do not use their equipment on a regular basis. If you let your equipment sit for any real length of time, you would likely be better off with mineral oil.

[morten]

In all the cases, the owners only stipulated 'cooking oil' as far as I could discern. We are saying 'rapeseed' specifically for a reason. That particular vegetable oil has qualities perfect for use on a chainsaw. Using any other oil may invite issues.

 

As for oxidation, etc. You can not leave rapeseed or any vegetable oil without stabilizers in your equipment for any extended length of time without chancing gumming issues etc.

 

Our advice was for professionals. I admit I can forget that some people on these forums do not use their equipment on a regular basis. If you let your equipment sit for any real length of time, you would likely be better off with mineral oil.

 

I agree with the above

 

One of the owners I quoted expressed experiencing trouble with rapeseed oil (lack of lubrication), and it would be easy to find many more.

 

Mileage may vary depending on usage patterns (frequency, storage etc), oil type used (rapeseed, sunflower etc), additives (as you state).

 

What I was trying to point out, is that you need to be aware of the repercussions of using bio oils, whether they are "raw" or sold specifically for use in chainsaws, and what is suitable for one person is not advisable for others.

Edited November 10, 2014 by morten

[wyk]

I agree with the above

 

One of the owners I quoted expressed experiencing trouble with rapeseed oil (lack of lubrication), and it would be easy to find many more.

 

Mileage may vary depending on usage patterns (frequency, storage etc), oil type used (rapeseed, sunflower etc), additives (as you state).

 

What I was trying to point out, is that you need to be aware of the repercussions of using bio oils, whether they are "raw" or sold specifically for use in chainsaws, and what is suitable for one person is not advisable for others.

 

I understand. However, this is a professional forum. We assume owners are professionals, and make suggestions accordingly. So you can understand how we would suggest it's use unreservedly on this forum.

 

As for lubrication - rapeseed is as good as, or better, a lubricant than most mineral sold as chain oil in my experience, and in formal and informal tests done by the US Forest service, as well as the Ministry of Forestry in British Columbia. Use straight rapeseed/canola, keep your chain sharp, and don't leave it sit for 6 months at a time, and you'll be fine. And that advice applies to everyone.

[Treespotter]

However, please let me know why you think that bio chain oil manufacturers are going to such lengths to reduce oxidation by adding expensive additives to their oil, as well as to increase the viscosity to improve lubrication properties. [/quote ]

 

Morten, that's not my question to answer. I can make an educated guess. Money?

 

While you may believe that your chains are being well lubricated using rapeseed oil straight from the supermarket shelf, it may be that your chains and bars are being worn out quicker that they would be if you were to use oil with higher viscosity.

Your guessing here Morten.

 

When I made the switch, it was because of positive results by colleges.

I realized my chains stopped wearing at the bottom of the connecting links and on the rails of the bar, as well as a significant reduction in stretching of the chains. I think this is because the chain is cleaner with less 'sticky' negativity.

Why on earth would I use a product when my chains and bars would wear out faster. Money? Do you really think that worn equipment is worth that bargain hunt?

 

O, one other thing. I saw you are taking about vegetable oil in some posts. We are talking about only ONE kind of vegetable oil. CANOLA/RAPESEED.

 

Treespotter signing off from this thread. It's not my fight. Use whatever you like. In fact, stick to your gue stuff and enjoy your being ripped off by the companies that make your special product. I can't really be bothered.

[Goaty]

Just a thought about additives in chain oils. It could be like food. Additives stabilise and alter other properties in the things they are added to.

If a homeowner who only strikes his saw up once a year had a gummed up saw he would complain to oil manufacturer. Rather than have bad press they put what is needed in to avoid this.

 

Second thought I have only experimented/used rapeseed in 13 and 15 inch sugi hara bars. My view was if the bars and chain wear out a bit quicker it's still no loss as I'm saving almost half price on oil per 20ltr drum £22ish as opposed to £45.

 

 

I did enquire on a milling thread a while back if millers had success on bigger bars with rapeseed as I haven't risked it yet.

[nepia]

Can't help with the milling question but I've had no issues with rape oil on a 25" bar if that helps at all.

[morten]

I think the arguments are going full circle here. I believe we are all in agreement, really.

 

... We assume owners are professionals, and make suggestions accordingly. So you can understand how we would suggest it's use unreservedly on this forum.

 

As for lubrication - rapeseed is as good as, or better, a lubricant than most mineral sold as chain oil in my experience

 

I have never claimed otherwise. In my very first post, I compared "raw" rapeseed oils with rapeseed oils with additives to reduce oxidation and increase viscosity. I never compared rapeseed oils to mineral based oils. In this comparison, I pointed out that storage may be a factor:

 

If you use plain rapeseed oil, straight from the supermarket shelf, you are likely to experience lubrication problems (due to low viscosity) as well as "gumming up" problems, especially if you leave your equipment inactive for prolonged periods.

 

Furthermore, not all professional equipment gets used all year round. As an example, my pole saw gets used only very infrequently, and consequently, I use mineral based chain oil for that saw. Some of my other (professional) saws occasionally sit on the shelf for weeks or months, and I don't like having to remember to empty and clean the oil from the saws, as I never know how long the saws will stay unused for.

 

As I read the comments from the "chainsaw repair" guys on this forum, they repair chainsaws from professional users that have "gummed up". So it seems to be an issue with professional users. These are most certainly caused by vegetable based oils, which could be untreaded (or badly treated) rapeseed oils. Wouldn't it be valuable to find out what kind of oils causes most "gumming up" problems? I certainly think so.

 

However, please let me know why you think that bio chain oil manufacturers are going to such lengths to reduce oxidation by adding expensive additives to their oil, as well as to increase the viscosity to improve lubrication properties. [/quote ]

 

Morten, that's not my question to answer. I can make an educated guess. Money?

 

 

Your guessing here Morten.

 

When I made the switch, it was because of positive results by colleges.

I realized my chains stopped wearing at the bottom of the connecting links and on the rails of the bar, as well as a significant reduction in stretching of the chains. I think this is because the chain is cleaner with less 'sticky' negativity.

Why on earth would I use a product when my chains and bars would wear out faster. Money? Do you really think that worn equipment is worth that bargain hunt?

 

Treespotter signing off from this thread. It's not my fight. Use whatever you like. In fact, stick to your gue stuff and enjoy your being ripped off by the companies that make your special product. I can't really be bothered.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that, all other things being equal, Bio chain oils (AFAIK, all rapeseed based) with viscosity additives and anti oxidant additives have superior lubrication properties and less/slower "gumming up" properties than untreated ("raw") rapeseed oil. That is likely to be the reason why the manufacturers go to those lengths to add those additives to the rapeseed oils.

On the other hand, you can buy untreated rapeseed oil considerably cheaper than "official" bio chain oils, and your chainsaw usage patterns supports the use of untreated rapeseed oil, I wouldn't dream of discouraging the use (and never have been).

 

I see this as a very relevant discussion, not a "fight". If I have made that impression, I am sorry.

[adw]

Hell i only wanted to know if anyone else had bio oil degrading on the saw and making it a bitch to get off, didnt realise it was such an imotive issue. Sorry.

[peatff]

Another question, does anybody cook with chain oil and does it stick to your pans ? It's a healthy discussion and some people have used veg oil and had no problem and others have gummed up bars and pumps and will stop using it. There's not always a clear cut end to everything. What brand of oil are the successful users using would be helpful to know for those who might want to save by buying Spry crisp and dry or whatever.