Mobile Retorts

[the village idiot]

A good suggestion, and a system used by the charcoal heavyweights. Treewood charcoal have a static kiln with boiler plate charge chambers and Tregothnan (excuse my spelling) estate in Kent have huge retorts inside shipping containers.

The problem Treewood have, besides warping, is the heat up and cool down times are very long due to the large metal mass. I don't know how Tregothnan get on.

I may be setting myself up for some stick here but I think it would be really good if charcoal and other woodland products could be viable as cottage industries, benefiting many rather than the few who can afford to invest in huge machines manned by one or two people churning out huge quantities.

 

Small is beautiful!

 

Perhaps if wood could be transported cheaply enough then Difflock's idea could work on a cooperative basis, with several people owning and using the single large kiln?

 

Now where's my daisy chain gone?

[difflock]

The cooperative operation would be an excellent business model.

And since Mr Bishop is looking for a new co-op job.

perhaps he could run the operation.

[openspaceman]

Think those retorts made by 'Traditional Charcoal Co.' On the Wirral or somewhere, from memory they were really expensive £15000 or so there was another trailer mounted one that was called or made by 'Viper' and was even dearer?

 

The Viper was technically a kiln rather than a retort. The output looked more "coked" than the shinyblack the market required. IMO kilns offer some advantages over retorts. I think the big Simcoa kiln for making jarra charcoal for silicon smelting was interesting but even that was shutdown.

[timbernut]

The cooperative operation would be an excellent business model.

And since Mr Bishop is looking for a new co-op job.

perhaps he could run the operation.

 

 

There was an attempt at setting up a coop in E Anglia round about 2000 but ended up starting as a ltd co that flopped due mostly to bad management (sending producers on 60 mile round trips to deliver 6 bags, ignoring wishes of producers about packaging). If it had been set up as a coop and the members had been listened to it would've worked.

 

Incidentally wasn't/is Bio Regional a coop? I was asked if I would be interested in burning for them a few years ago but they wer too restrictive about species ie no willow, sallow or softwoods which were the ones I wanted to use because of their low value as logs!

 

Have also considered brick Alexander retort as I'm permanently based in a wood with concrete track access. Has anyone seen one working/used one? I know you have to buy the plans but would like to know if they're efficient it would certainly stop the warping problems

[timbernut]

Also isn't one of the reasons for producing charcoal from low value wood to reduce cost of transporting heavy loads out of the woods?

[openspaceman]

 

Incidentally wasn't/is Bio Regional a coop?

 

No it was more of a dictatorship

[timbernut]

No it was more of a dictatorship

 

 

Ha ha! That's how I felt about Surfire

[Logan]

Also isn't one of the reasons for producing charcoal from low value wood to reduce cost of transporting heavy loads out of the woods?

 

Excellent post, people.

 

As the 'nut says, would the "profit margin" handle another handling process?

 

Having seen the village idiot's impressive quality charcoal and neat system today, one of the best bits was that he was cutting bendy understorey hazel to the short lengths that make it look a whole lot straighter and stacking them tightly in the kiln, all with relatively minimal equipment and low diesel use.

 

While this process may seem labourious, the stacking of 1m lengths into a billet bundler takes some patience, and after being handled a couple of times must be fun to fit in a round hole? Especially if bendy wood was involved.

 

If you have to transport the sticks, a bundle might be a good option.

 

Cheers, John.

[the village idiot]

Have also considered brick Alexander retort as I'm permanently based in a wood with concrete track access. Has anyone seen one working/used one? I know you have to buy the plans but would like to know if they're efficient it would certainly stop the warping problems

 

I haven't heard of the Alexander retort. There is a brick built retort called the 'Adam Retort' which may be similar. The only people I know to have tried this system in the UK are Carbon Gold. They are the big cheeses in UK biochar, set up by Craig Sams (the ex Green and Blacks owner). Carbon Gold have now developed their own range of retort kilns so presumably didn't get on with the brick retort.

It is a popular design in the developing world because it is relatively cheap and can be built by any bricklayer. The potential issues with them, as far as I can see, are similar to those with ring kilns ie. No real temperature control and the need to climb in and shovel out the product. This is unpleasant enough when you have had a good burn but soul destroying when your kiln is full of ash and unconverted wood.

Carbon Gold would be the people to ask for an informed opinion.

[the village idiot]

Incidentally wasn't/is Bio Regional a coop? I was asked if I would be interested in burning for them a few years ago but they wer too restrictive about species ie no willow, sallow or softwoods which were the ones I wanted to use because of their low value as logs!*

 

I think a lot of charcoal producers had to leave bio-regional when they introduced an FSC only sourcing policy. The margins were ridiculously tight already without any extra certification costs, group scheme or no.

FSC probably deserves a thread all to itself so I won't start ranting here!