Paleo diet for arborists

[doobin]

Fat vs sugar was a load of crap. The one on fat cut out ALL carbs (not sub 30g/day as is needed for keto). He moaned he had no energy, but that was because he was in keto adaptation. Had he stuck with it for a week longer and eaten some leafy vegetables he would have felt way better.

 

I'm considering switching to Paleo (ie. eating more carbs) now that keto has left me 10st 10lb at 6' tall and 8% body fat. Trouble is I think I enjoy pork belly more than I would a kiwi fruit So I probably won't.

[10 Bears]

Wrong! Ketogenic method - eating high fat medium protein low carb causes ketosis meaning the body breaks down body fat to use as fuel instead on glucose from sugar. Plenty of new stuff on the net proving the theories....

 

Mr B - you are entitled to your opinion of course, however, you have clearly misread and don't understand my commentary, you don't have a clear grasp of the terminology used, of the processes involved, or indeed of the context of the program that was under discussion.

 

Yes, being in a Ketosis state is the process of using fat as a primary fuel source (dietary fats first, then stored body fat) due to depleted glycogen levels, often caused by low consumption of carbohydrates, or as another response to glycogen depletion e.g. being ill. We agree on that point so there is little to say further.

 

However, the Dr. in the program that was the subject of some very loose 'experimentation' entered a catabolic state through not being ketogenically adapted. The definition of being in a catabolic state, which you so clearly mis-understand is "any destructive process by which complex substances are converted by living cells into more simple compounds, with release of energy"

Source here.

 

Now, during the experiment, this twin was subject to prolonged zero carb and high fat consumption - which is not the Paleo approach as I discussed earlier (reread my other post for more information), this is the Atkins method. The twin also endured periods of full exertion eg cycling in a race uphill after an hours strenuous warm up. His blood glycemia was measured before and after. Now in a fully depleted glycogen state (at the bottom of the hill after warm up), his blood sugar levels were taken, he completed the race (

), and they were taken again at the top. The big surprise being that his blood sugar levels did in fact rise. So how did this happen? Very simply, he had entered a catabolic state where his body had started to digest the muscle tissue through amino acids and the citric cycle in order to provide the required glycogen. This is absolutely not ketosis.

 

Rather then take my word for this process, a commentary by a writer for the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition provides some quite clear text on this:

 

"Fats Burn in a Carbohydrate Flame, Right?

It has been claimed that carbohydrates serve as a primer for fat catabolism ("fats burn in a carbohydrate flame"). However, as pointed out by Robergs and Roberts [22], this is an incorrect contention. In skeletal muscle, fat certainly does not burn in a carbohydrate flame, as skeletal muscle does not have sufficient quantities of the enzymes to convert glycolytic intermediates into molecules that can be transported into the mitochondria to supplement citric acid cycle intermediates. Further, the production of acetoacyl CoA, a substrate of ketone body formation, can occur only in the liver and thus does not apply to skeletal muscle metabolism. Human skeletal muscle can oxidize at least seven amino acids: leucine, isoleucine, valine, glutamate, asparagine, aspartate and alanine. Of these amino acids, however, oxidation of only the branched chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine) appears to be increased during catabolic states such as exercise.

 

When muscle glycogen and blood glucose concentrations are low, the incorporation of the carbon skeletons from amino acids into the citric acid cycle is important for maintaining the concentrations of the intermediates, and therefore a high rate of mitochondrial respiration. Thus, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame. As discussed by Robergs and Roberts [22], amino acid catabolism during exercise is important for three reasons: 1) for free energy during exercise to fuel muscle contraction; 2) to increase concentrations of citric acid cycle intermediates and therefore support carbohydrate and lipid catabolism; and 3) to serve as gluconeogenic precursors. It has also been claimed that carbohydrate provides the only macronutrient substrate whose stored energy generates ATP non-aerobically. This is not the case, however, since several studies have shown that amino acid catabolism also provides a source of anaerobic energy production [23], Aspartate, for example, can be fermented to succinate or propionate [24]. Interestingly, Ivy et al. [25] and Saunders et al. [26], reported that the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement enhanced endurance performance above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone."

 

In the conclusion to the program, it was found the twin that had eaten very high dietary fat had lost some levels of body fat, presumably as he had passed through some levels of ketosis, but moreover, he had lost significant levels of muscle mass (3.5Kg lost overall, 1.5kg from fat but 2kg, or 57% from muscle mass) - as a result of being in a catabolic state caused by eating zero carbs ie the Atkins approach. This would have released very high levels of protein into his bloodstream and contributed to his near diabetic condition as he had become insulin resistant due to the high level of fat consumed (without carbs - again not Paleo). His blood glucose level rose overall during the experiment from 5.1 to 5.9 - just 0.2 away from being diabetic, because he consumed no carbs. The blood glucose has to come from somewhere - and because of everything I have stated earlier - he was in a catabolic state and digesting his own muscle tissue.

 

The key point that they surmise is the simple fact that a single solution is not going to work ie cutting out all sugars, is not the answer. Even on higher fat, moderate protein and lower carbs ie Paleo, you have to have the carbs in there otherwise your body will cease to function correctly. Like in his case, become insulin resistant and close to diabetes.

 

So Mr. B, I hope I have helped you understand what I discussed in a little more detail, and that you can reasonably see that I am not in fact, "wrong" as you stated.

[10 Bears]

Can someone briefly explain what the program was about and the outcome please?

 

Here you go Taupo - one better. You can watch the program in full here

 

Its an hour long, but is interesting, particularly if you look at it objectively and try to recognise the limitations of their 'experiment'. Good conclusion though, that reinforces the idea that Paleo is the answer....

[John parker]

Can any one give me any sites especially for this diet, thank you

[doobin]

Plenty of links posted in the first few pages of this thread.

[nickos]

http://robbwolf.com

[mistahbenn]

Thedailyapple.com

[10 Bears]

Hello John

 

the best website in my opinion is Mark's Daily Apple lots of very good, detailed information and some free pdfs to get you started

 

Mark Sission who runs the site is a known Paleo expert and also has a book called The Primal Blueprint which is worth a read.

[Steve Bullman]

Just been weighed for the first time since starting this diet, 22lbs lost since christmas

[Stephen Blair]

Is that nearly 2 stone?