'Laying' bigger trees

[countrryboy]

Alright, this is my first post so hopefully i've put it in the right place.

 

I'm looking for a bit of advice for the best way to 'lay' folding some bigger than averag timber, mainly willow or birch anything up to 12"+ dia butt's.

 

I realise it's the wrong time off year now but thought i'd post will i remember.

Basically i run a small shoot and am sort of coppicing and felling some areas of woodland to let more light in and get some ground veg growing. I have for a few years been sort of laying a few trees, the idea being to get the tree branches to grow vertically like windblown trees often do, to create some instant cover and a wind break.

 

It sort of works but some of my cuts look really untidy, is there a proper technique for doing this? It doesn't have to look great as long as it works

 

At the minute the 2 sort off make it up as go along cuts have been

 

1 The tidiest 1 i have been doing is to cut a big open 'gub' sort of 90+ degree well through with no back cut, the tree so ideally it falls and gub is still slighlty open when tree touches ground. Works well with small stuff or leaning but if tree is very straight the far side of bark struggles to strech enough and sometimes rips. Would waiting till sap rising help as tree suppler?

 

2 The second cut i use works fairly well but looks horrendous, i simply put a back cut in with no gub and pull the tree over and down usually splittin and 'barbers chair'ing it. It generally leaves plenty attatched but just looks bad but does seem to work better on bigger stuff

 

I have some smallish sitka to fell at a flushing point also, is there any way to 'lay' them to keep them green for flushing cover. Otherwise they will just be getting felled and make brash wigwam's but live trees would be beter

 

Cheers for any advice, like i said it's not like laying a hedge just odd trees here and there to try and make a makeshift hedge/windbreak

[Peasgood]

I would cut willow off at the ground, it will shoot again.

If you wanted more than that just push some straight bits in the ground, they will grow too.

[agg221]

You can make big stuff lay, but you will need to control it down, maybe with a winch.

 

The standard cut is more like your second one, using a deep back cut, low down, and then 'sculpting' out from above with a downward cut, trying to leave a thin strip on the front face. If you want to do it all with a chainsaw, aim for the starting cut to start about 3-4 times the diameter above the crosscut. The remaining front strip should be about half an inch thick or so, although you may need to experiment with this as I haven't tried it on willow. It really doesn't look like enough to support the tree, but it does!

 

I have managed to lay stuff up to about 6" thick like this on my own without a winch, using a handsaw and a hatchet but it gets a bit precarious at the end trying to hold it up. Much easier with a winch!

 

Alec

[csservices]

Not tried it on birch or willow but have done plenty of big hawthorn over the years when hedgelaying, I cut diagonally down back to front to about 3/4 to 7/8 of the way through the tree see pic below

[countrryboy]

Cheers so far, keep any ideas coming

 

I generally leave plenty of meat so it is a struggle to pull tree over, some could be 30odd feet but not usually heavy, i can usually control them falling fairly gentally by either leaving plenty meat in the cut or fell slightly towards another tree so it sort of glances down the side and u really have to pull/wiggle it down.

Problem not so much with the tree's falling to quick just the butt's look ugly and wondering if a better way.

Looks fairly tidy the first way (with big gub) but think the bark/cadbium can't strech enough to let trunk onto ground, as even when pushing stem down slowly u can see it ripping where it is most streched

 

I have been leaving a lot more meat on the tree than wot was in ur photo of that hawthorn

 

I am also coppicing some so not a disaster if they snap off just trying a bit off a short cut to warm wood up.

 

I actually have planted quite a few willow cuts over the past few years, been a disaster, had a very poor succes rate with them growing, the 2 or 3 main areas are very peaty/acidic and even sitka is severly stunted and only 6ft tall after 30 odd years. Must be about the only ground in uk that cannae get willow to grow. Althou grows in plenty off other places just not where i wanted it

 

cheers again

[Dorset Hedgelayer]

Sorry no close up but in second picture you can see the size/lenght of the heel, just to the left of the next "tree"

 

If you get a split lenght ways after laying, still try to clean it up

[woody paul]

Dig and cut roots on opposite side to direction of lay and winch over or push with digger. As if it had blowen over.

[hedgesparrow]

as Dorset has said cut 2/3rds through stem. what you need is a good side axe that is sharp. depending on the size of trunk then x by 3 to start your pleach so if its 6inche round then start cut 18inches up. you need with a saw to cut down at a angle still leaving a third of timber. but when you get 3 inches from bottom use the axe. the saw will cut against grain the axe will go with grain by cutting down with axe and a extra person helping with stem. you should be able to twist the axe handle as a lever and the tree should lower down slowly on its own with help. if its cracks you have not cut through enough. were abouts in country are you. it would help may be a cutter who may be willing to show you the ropes to get you going. i am happy to show you if you are near by

[Alycidon]

I also run a shoot here.

 

Faced with the same issues but under mixed hard and soft planted maybe 40 years ago I planted 100 Laurels a year for 3 years a few years ago spread over four drives. I have this winter started laying some ofthem, they then should ( I am told and have seen on another shoot) root where the branches etc touch the ground and so spread giving good bottom cover and leaving a height as you desire of up to maybe five or six feet. A mate has them in his pen, holds birds like you would not believe, looking for a shot bird after its been dogged out often puts another half a dozen live birds out.

 

This though is not a short term solution but as a medium term is will work well.

 

A

[csservices]

That hawthorn in the pic was'nt supposed to be that thin, but due to the shape of the trunk at the base it ran out to a thin hinge, but it will hold and grow perfectly well from that