How to crash an industry

[Yorkshireman]

What is the legal status of a topper then? I thought the only restriction was a self regulatory dont sell these to the general public.

 

nope its regarding 'the use'

anyone can legally buy a top handle you just cant use it if you arent certified

[Mesterh]

I think personally that there should be laws that enforce you to have the certs if you operate the machinery. That way the ones who have nothing, the ones that can and do jobs for very cheap prices could be prosecuted before something goes wrong ie an accident.

 

I mean there is no law in having Public Liability (going off topic but relevant to my comment ) what is all that about?

 

You could have someone up an 70ft pop over a dual carriageway and footpath with no certs and no insurance and no one would give a toss or do anything unless there is an accident!

 

For me it is all about the cost(which obviously includes the time off work while training or getting new certs) more cost more expense day rate goes up and winning jobs goes down its as simple as that for me.

 

We are already running on the line of making no profit, there isnt ever a boom in the arb industry like there is in construction (couple of months of storm damage every few years doesnt make the grade) it just always seems to be steady then drops like in times like now.

 

This is just my experience and those that run small companies in my area, I could land for a nice commercial contract tomorrow and none of this might affect me for years but when most of your income comes from domestic it is just another kick in the nads to me.

 

Every penny counts and the cons outweigh the pros by a very big margin for me I'm afraid.

 

I wish it wasnt like this but well its how I try to make a living and its getting harder all the time.

 

I think I have depressed myself enough for now!

[Yorkshireman]

As an employer

my concern is that If this is brought in with the terminoligy

' remains valid if training HAS been undertaken

 

then If god forbid an 'accident' happens & a judge has to make a decision re the events surrounding

this judgenment will be based on HSE guidance & the guidance notes state NPTC certification

 

If this Certification is INVALID as training has not YET been undertaken

 

What happens to our insurance & subsequent liability, will the insurance cover ???

As you may our maynot of experienced some insurers will avoid payments if they can...

 

So if then our insurance is invalid ..

 

We as employers have a Legal duty to provide effective employer liability cover for our staff ..

 

SO by default we would be trading illegally !!!!!!!!

 

irrespective of Pre certs or insurance in place

it just simply may not count

 

Just Because of Wording...

 

.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Yorkshireman

[RC0]

Well I didnt # remember this refresher training is proposed without certification So Assessors dont get a penny

 

Trainers, assessors, either or both is what I meant. Someone is advising the HSE, who is it?

[Yorkshireman]

. Someone is advising the HSE, who is it?

 

working groups such as NOS, LANTRA, NPTC , Forestry commision, Isa, AA , ICF, IsIa, TGWU, TCIA, BALi, NATO

 

listed here

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/aboutus/meetings/iacs/aiac/afag/workplan.pdf

[Arborlord]

As an employer

my concern is that If this is brought in with the terminoligy

' remains valid if training HAS been undertaken

 

then If god forbid an 'accident' happens & a judge has to make a decision re the events surrounding

this judgenment will be based on HSE guidance & the guidance notes state NPTC certification

 

If this Certification is INVALID as training has not YET been undertaken

 

What happens to our insurance & subsequent liability, will the insurance cover ???

As you may our maynot of experienced some insurers will avoid payments if they can...

 

So if then our insurance is invalid ..

 

We as employers have a Legal duty to provide effective employer liability cover for our staff ..

 

SO by default we would be trading illegally !!!!!!!!

 

irrespective of Pre certs or insurance in place

it just simply may not count

 

Just Because of Wording...

 

.

 

All i know is my insurance company never asked about nptc certs before i had them and when i got them they said it did not make any difference. I had been accepted without certs.

 

So you can get insured without certs i also did have a good chat with a hse inspector who laid down in black and white all you need is proof of competance.

 

NPTC is not required by law proof of competance is required by law.

 

How you prove that is down to you.

[scotspine1]

Or perhaps like us, you also need a refresher, if only to keep you in touch with the folks you are trying to influence….how about this week? we have some big stuff lined up for any such assessor who is willing meet the challenge.

Let us see how adaptable your teachings are in a Commercial Tree-work Environment. You simply take over my role while I observe and tell you how you did thereafter….and the beauty is, I won’t even charge you for it!

 

Arbocop, you should take Reg up on his above offer. It'd be a good test of your abilities and Reg could video it and we could all judge your performance and decide wether or not you need a refresher course, what say you to that idea?

[Yorkshireman]

All i know is my insurance company never asked about nptc certs before i had them and when i got them they said it did not make any difference. I had been accepted without certs.

 

So you can get insured without certs i also did have a good chat with a hse inspector who laid down in black and white all you need is proof of competance.

 

NPTC is not required by law proof of competance is required by law.

 

How you prove that is down to you.

 

 

The question I ask is how will that PROOF be defined & it all comes back to law & the interpretation of law & who are the people that interpret law Qc's Judges & who do they seek advise from HSe & who do they support etc etc etc

your insurer may take your money But in the small print somewhere !

 

Ask Dean about insurance companys

I dont beleive that these events are probable for every operation but they are possible !! for Someone because ACCIDENTS have a way of happening

 

We should HAVE ACCREDITATION or CERTIFICATION if we want to be taken as serious PROFESSIONALS

 

YOU decide !

 

ME I'm having my tupence worth!

 

THATS WHY there is CONSULTATION

 

.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Yorkshireman

[High Scale]

Arbocop, you should take Reg up on his above offer. It'd be a good test of your abilities and Reg could video it and we could all judge your performance and decide wether or not you need a refresher course, what say you to that idea?

 

Odd, I agree with you.

[nailer]

Can refresher training be done by someone other than NPTC and Lantra etc?

 

I like to refresh my skills all the time. I watch other climbers. I ask questions. Go to the shows. Read books and watch the vids. Maybe even try out some new tricks to improve production. I`m assuming my `soak it up like a sponge` work place attitude would fulfill my refresher training commitments.