How to crash an industry

[Arbocop]

Where do we recuperate this time and cost in an industry that is already starved of profit and choked with red-tape….pass it onto the customer, in a looming depression? Do any such considerations even enter the running?

 

Are there any assessors/trainers/consultants who are voluntarily involved as such?

 

pt1 we try to build re training etc CPD in to our prices as well as all the other stuff we try to do, but we all must accept that no one is perfect.

 

pt2 in what way volentary, i like you all need to feed my family so i do a job of work for whitch i get paid, but i also give up time to support my branch of the aa FOC, i chair a committee FOC that reps to govenment, i spend my time at home on this forum and others offering my opinion and trying to help sort the weat from the chaff, not my employers time. i give up some time to scouting and SJA and then i have 2 kids and mrs to keep happpy i sleep well at night thinking im giving back quite a bit, but thats me cant talk for the other 300 assessors .

[Arbocop]

If that were the case all round, I wonder then if assessors and trainers alike would still be so insistent on pushing for the 5 yearly refresher courses!

 

In becoming an assessor/trainer, would either one or all of you like to declare where lays your primary incentive for this direction in your respective career? Thanks

 

pt 1. we dont push for it, it is entirly the desire of the hse, and if you look through most industries you will see the 3-5 year refresher is standard as for me of all the people i see on refresher cources i would say 70%-75% need polishing up a bit, i accept that leaves c.25% that will not take as much away from training as others, but there is a thread on going about arial rescue and the message there is sometimes its good just to practise, hse not lantra/nptc instructor assessors dont shoot the messenger.

 

fot the final paragraph ive said that erlier.

 

none of the above is ment to be contensiouse, and of cource is my point of view only, it would also like to say this thread did start off a bit negative saying the day any new units cam in we would all be in need of new new tickets lets just remember that is not the case, and this proposed new certification is ment to beter meet the needs of the changing face of arb

[Mr Ed]

Kevin, I suspect that no matter what the members of this forum said to object to the changes, it would make precious little difference to the outcome.

The powers that be should be telling the government to piss off with there continued efforts to throttle industry with yet more red tape. Still I suppose it makes more work for pen pushers and has beans..

I once heard the saying ' those that can't, teach'.

 

I am now going to go out of my way to organize FREE refresher training.

[RC0]

Where do we recuperate this time and cost in an industry that is already starved of profit and choked with red-tape….pass it onto the customer, in a looming depression? Do any such considerations even enter the running?

 

Are there any assessors/trainers/consultants who are voluntarily involved as such?

 

pt1 we try to build re training etc CPD in to our prices as well as all the other stuff we try to do, but we all must accept that no one is perfect.

 

 

With answers like that (Bold) and the rest, I would question the judgement of those who endorsed your apparent natural aptitude to communicate!

Or perhaps like us, you also need a refresher, if only to keep you in touch with the folks you are trying to influence….how about this week? we have some big stuff lined up for any such assessor who is willing meet the challenge.

Let us see how adaptable your teachings are in a Commercial Tree-work Environment. You simply take over my role while I observe and tell you how you did thereafter….and the beauty is, I won’t even charge you for it!

 

Also

 

pt 1. we dont push for it, it is entirly the desire of the hse, and if you look through most industries you will see the 3-5 year refresher is standard

 

So you and the 300 other assessors had no say nor influence in this desire whatsoever? Thanks

[Tom D]

One thing I'm a little unclear on is, is it actually illegal to operate without the appropriate NPTC cert? I know that in the event of an accident the hse will tend to prosecute if there was an inadequate level of training, but just suppose that an employer had his own in house scheme and could prove that it was just as thorough and rigorous as the NPTC, has he fulfilled his obligations?

 

Whenever I put this question to those in the know I get a woolly answer, we know it is definately Illegal do drive without a valid liscence and there will be a written statute somwhere that confirms this: "subsection something or other of the road traffic act". What I want to know is what is the relevant section of the Health and Safety at Work act and can some one please post that relevant part.

 

That said I am not against NPTC training per se and I do not beleive that the original training could or should be bypassed, however refresher training IMO could and shoud be an in house matter. What would be wrong with a company taking a day out in the year for staff to familliarise themselves with the latest developments, and to take a short written test to show the records that the training has taken place. Employees could sign a statement to confirm that they were happy that they were adequately trained for the job in hand.

 

The problem with all this is that companies like mine, and I am sure many others on here, are being asked to commit money and time that they can ill afford in order to comply? with the law. If every last tree surgeon in the country attended training courses every other day then I'd be happy to do the same, but when those with a conscience are loosing jobs to those who are prepared to flout the law? purely because of the additional cost of training ( remember the downtime costs more than the training itself ) I think its totally unfair. Further more this will eventually drive standards down as more and more of the better firms go under, loosing work to those who are prepared to cut corners.

 

A little time spent by the SSC working out how to properly implement the current regime and make it more open and inclusive to all those in the industry would be time well spent. Once 95% of all the proffesional chainsaw operators in the country are under the NPTC umbrella then it will be time to tweak the system. Any further tweaking at the moment just raises the bar even higher for those on the edge of the system and makes them less likely to want to be part of it.

[Khriss]

What they did was slowly increase the course prices over the years then thought hang on heres a winner make them redo the courses.

 

No no they will kick up about that so make them do refreshers they will moan but lump it.

 

Its funny the refresher is almost the same as the courses ie writtle cs30/31 £860 5 days the refresher £380 i think and the refresher is only a 1 day course wow fook me sideways.

 

So you work the maths out and this is just a refresher to make sure you aint forgot how to change a spark plug air filter and b you can remember how to cut a tiny log oh and they will chuck in some new techniques kind of like reinventing the wheel stuff im guessing other wise what can be changed.

 

Sorry about the rant i seem to get annoyed by all this.

 

 

 

Would it not be very funny if people could train on the job and log hours experience etc would that not put NPTC backs up they would loose the monopoly on arb training.

 

 

You are bloody joking mate ! Not with my money- cheeky buggers- If I went on a course to ' refresh ' an deliberately made an error that the course instructor didn't pull up-I'd tell them to stick their certificate...........an the bill.

 

K

[Peter]

One thing I'm a little unclear on is, is it actually illegal to operate without the appropriate NPTC cert?

 

No.

 

For starters, there are other recognised training and certification providers.

 

Secondly, PUWER says that you must provide training for your employees. This could be a 30 minute session in house to show a new employee how to operate a piece of equipment. As far as I am aware, chainsaws have no special status enshrined in legislation, therefore as long as you can demonstrate that adequate training has been provided, there is no requirement for a certificate of competence.

 

This is further confirmed by the existence of LANTRA. You can attend a LANTRA course and receive a certificate of attendance at a training course, which is clearly not a certificate of competence, and then go off and use a chainsaw in the workplace.

[Yorkshireman]

No.

 

For starters, there are other recognised training and certification providers.

 

As far as I am aware, chainsaws have no special status enshrined in legislation, therefore as long as you can demonstrate that adequate training has been provided, there is no requirement for a certificate of competence.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

i'd just check the use of a top handled saw If I were you

[Peter]

i'd just check the use of a top handled saw If I were you

 

What is the legal status of a topper then? I thought the only restriction was a self regulatory dont sell these to the general public.

[Yorkshireman]

With answers like that (Bold)

 

 

So you and the 300 other assessors had no say nor influence in this desire whatsoever? Thanks

 

 

 

Well I didnt # remember this refresher training is proposed without certification So Assessors dont get a penny

 

however now is the time for all those Assessor or not to put their opinion forward

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