How to crash an industry

[Will Hinchliffe]

Do you need to do refreshers or can you just do CS Units in chainsaw use that you do not already have?

[Arbocop]

hi guys and gals warning broad band mucking arround so might loose some of the post

 

i have a bit of a rep for long answers, so bear with me. so first lets confess ohh no im an npyc assessor, a lantra trainer, a qualified teacher who assists the SJA with first aid provsions in training, so does that mean im the devil, well to some may be.

 

lets get a couple of things in perspective, the N.O.S is not perfect, it is a requirment of govenment, and is written in teaching speak, our nos has been under reviw for a couple of years seriously but before that for about 5 years the TTWG were looking at it.

 

why is it important well what it does is set out a range of skills that differant qualifications need to meet, the higher the qualification the moor skills the moor evidence, so all you that have ever done an nptc or ND C&G in the last 10 tears or so would have been affected by them. the new proposed nos ties in to job specifications that spell out more what one migh expect of a ground worker in utility or aminity work, forman etc.

 

they are long complex and painful, but with the way education is set up these days are a necessary thing, one that FASTCo used to do under a differant title.

 

so over 10 years have passed govenment required the NOs be redone, witch is happening, it was advertiesed in hor week, the aa news letter, isa uk mag lots of places, but whent largly unnoticed another thing that caused problems, but still got some feed back and of the people giving feed back you have everything from a small 2 man company through to a multinational and education training and assessment bodies as well as a few groups from arb, silver. for. and boy are they heavy going meetings.

 

noew the current NOs is nearing completion its not perfect nether are the job profiles, but a lot of work is going in to this one and looking to the future nos for this and other industries so to the link with nptc................

 

in about 1996/7 NPTC changed there systems for assessmnt seperate train and assess, yep 12 or so years ago in line with the change to the NOS NTO/SSC changes. there was an over lap period, there was a major change to paperwork and other systems, but still from an assessors point of veiw it was not sorted till about 2000 9 years ago now, but for candidates the change was 12+ years. they alloed overlap and acredition for nearly 10 years, so if you had old certs you could claim new ones where they matched or only had to do unit tests in the bits were you had not previously been assessed to claim the whole cert.

 

thats 10 years twice the recomended update time for HSE. not unresnoble. so about 2 years ago now may be a little longer NPTC announced in all the placed you may expect to see it they were being promted to review there certs, to make sure they match the NOS and still work for the whole trees and timber group.

 

there have been many discussions not least of all if NPTC certs should expire, UA certs do and have also had a new reassessmnet process introduced.

 

all the otheres no, not this time, for those who fed back in they felt that the current system of updating was ok, not perfect but served well.

 

so faced with a change nptc have done a few consultations, and this one has difefrant stuff in it compared with previouse ones, and i think is good in many placed but not perfect for those that missed it you can find it here

http://www.nptc.org.uk/latest-news/detail.asp?dsid=347

the content i think is best placed in the other thread, but in answer to the orriginal issues of this tread

 

i think that there is a llittle knee jerk hear, when we look at how nptc introduced these things historically they have been consistent and understanding, not perfect but who hear is , not me i know. they have given good APL and resnoble roughts to acredit and carry things over.

 

as for updates it is a recomendation, there are many ways to address this issue and talking it through with informed people will give a good out come, like wisw robot like you must do this cource blahh blahh sers the candidate/trainer/asseesor no or little benifit.

 

hope the history lesson helped i think the next post ill try and keep shorter

[lumberjack2]

could somebody explain this simpley, I'm not great with all this legal jargen.

[jpbeaver]

i think it would be a better idea to make the assessors go out and have to work in the industry for a certain amount of time each year. the trainers i have met are people who couldnt make it in the industry. i know there not all the same though.

[Mesterh]

could somebody explain this simpley, I'm not great with all this legal jargen.

 

Looks like it cant , I think that is the problem we are facing.

[Arbocop]

yep i can but not tonight

[Mesterh]

yep i can but not tonight

 

Preparing myself for an in depth reply

[RC0]

If these refresher courses were free, then I don’t think there would be so much resentment from the people who have already paid for training and certification in the past….but the fact is that it sticks in one gut that some people are going to make money out of the workers as a result. Speaking of which, were any such non-related workers ever consulted about the changes?

 

Where do we recuperate this time and cost in an industry that is already starved of profit and choked with red-tape….pass it onto the customer, in a looming depression? Do any such considerations even enter the running?

 

Are there any assessors/trainers/consultants who are voluntarily involved as such?

 

If that were the case all round, I wonder then if assessors and trainers alike would still be so insistent on pushing for the 5 yearly refresher courses!

 

In becoming an assessor/trainer, would either one or all of you like to declare where lays your primary incentive for this direction in your respective career? Thanks

[Arborlord]

What they did was slowly increase the course prices over the years then thought hang on heres a winner make them redo the courses.

 

No no they will kick up about that so make them do refreshers they will moan but lump it.

 

Its funny the refresher is almost the same as the courses ie writtle cs30/31 £860 5 days the refresher £380 i think and the refresher is only a 1 day course wow fook me sideways.

 

So you work the maths out and this is just a refresher to make sure you aint forgot how to change a spark plug air filter and b you can remember how to cut a tiny log oh and they will chuck in some new techniques kind of like reinventing the wheel stuff im guessing other wise what can be changed.

 

Sorry about the rant i seem to get annoyed by all this.

 

Would it not be very funny if people could train on the job and log hours experience etc would that not put NPTC backs up they would loose the monopoly on arb training.

[Bundle 2]

" Do you need to do refreshers or can you just do CS Units in chainsaw use that you do not already have? "

 

As I understand it , assessment for cs units not already held by the candidate are considered valid refresher training...( I am assuming that passing said units is a requirement .....perhaps someone in NPTC employ could can confirm this ) This makes good sense to me.