How to crash an industry

[old snake]

Thats rediculas i dont see how they can get a way with it:thumbdown: The instructors will be bloody busy if everynoe who uses a saw has got to do a refresher!!!

[Yorkshireman]

what are the implications for employers liability

 

If an accident occurs & a court hearing is held. the judge would take note of the AFAg guidance, this indicates that nptc units are the recognised standard.

if however those Coc units are severed due to the releaseof the new update as is implied (if done without any transition period)

 

where are employers & employees left ?

 

is it not illegal to operate without Employers liability ? ( would any current El not be void if you knowingly operated with non valid Coc qualified staff ?)

 

Big questions for so late in the day

 

could this "training" not be replaced by current on going development or continued employment.

after all a cert of competence is not a validation to professional industry skill, that takes time & No training package I have been privileged to see has attempted to deliver that, which Experience gained from working within the trade gives

[penfold]

The instructors will be bloody busy if everynoe who uses a saw has got to do a refresher!!!

 

 

Could that be the whole point of this, jobs for the boys?

[Arob]

A quote from the proposal for the NPTC revision documents;

 

"NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in Chainsaw and Related Operations

 

Consultation on proposed changes February 2009

 

All of the chainsaw units have been reviewed by a select group of chainsaw operators.

 

This group was comprised of employers/contractors, trainers and assessors from

 

arboricultural and forestry backgrounds.

 

As with earlier revisions, Chainsaw units previously achieved will continue to be valid

 

after the revised Chainsaw Certificate of Competence units are released, provided

 

regular refresher training has been undertaken."

 

 

 

 

So on the day this new legislation is implimented (as no one will have undertaken refresher training) NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON within our industry will have a current NPTC ticket. Therefore EL insurance will be void ( which is a legal requirement to trade) as proof of competance is required, meaning the entire industry will have to either work illegally or stop trading that instant.

 

What the hell is going on here?

 

Not sure I follow your thinking here Pete, it says "As with earlier revisions, Chainsaw units previously achieved will continue to be valid after the revised Chainsaw Certificate of Competence units are released" How are you reading from that that it will invalidate your tickets?

 

It doesn't say anything about re-assessment, just training, to me this raises the question what counts as training? Given Khriss' example where he, like you, can demonstrate a huge amount of experience I wonder if anything beyond that will be required?

 

I think this may be positive if it means that someone who's been on a course, maybe even a short course, got their tickets and little further experience, won't be able to pick up a saw a couple of years down the road without some refreshment. But that's the way I've read what's in your post, you also say that the group included employers and contractors - surely they want what's best for the industry?

[Arborlord]

What it means is and this is from an instructor that any one with tickets now or before will all keep your tickets but will all have to attend refresher courses which will contain uptodate practices etc not redo the courses.

[Pete Mctree]

Not sure I follow your thinking here Pete, it says "As with earlier revisions, Chainsaw units previously achieved will continue to be valid after the revised Chainsaw Certificate of Competence units are released" How are you reading from that that it will invalidate your tickets?

 

It doesn't say anything about re-assessment, just training, to me this raises the question what counts as training? Given Khriss' example where he, like you, can demonstrate a huge amount of experience I wonder if anything beyond that will be required?

 

I think this may be positive if it means that someone who's been on a course, maybe even a short course, got their tickets and little further experience, won't be able to pick up a saw a couple of years down the road without some refreshment. But that's the way I've read what's in your post, you also say that the group included employers and contractors - surely they want what's best for the industry?

 

I agree with your sentiment, however that picture is not what they paint. The NPTC ( who i have no issue with and actually support) have chosen to make broad sweeping changes, which like it or not effect us all within the industry. If they qualified it, defining training and to what level and by whom, then i will accept it. However as is, it will be a very destructive sentance upon us all

[bob]

What it means is and this is from an instructor that any one with tickets now or before will all keep your tickets but will all have to attend refresher courses which will contain uptodate practices etc not redo the courses.

nice one arborlord

as you should of been doing since you got your tickets in the first place

the only difference is when or should i say if you do a refresher then the course would include new parts of the requirments

ask ant EA employee they have to do full refreshers for all there tickets every 3 years so even if they just done cs32 and 3 years ago they did cs30and31 then they still have to do the refresher for them

as afag states 3 years for casual users and 5 for regular users

[Arob]

Fair enough Pete, your thread was the first I'd heard of any of this, so I know chuff all about any of it, having posted I noticed Tony S has started a thread on it too

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6075

 

He's got a couple of links on that, so I'll check those out, but not tonight

[Pete Mctree]

as afag states 3 years for casual users and 5 for regular users

 

 

Have you got a link for those recomendations Bob. It would be nice to make this thread irrelevant in it's entirety by posting the relevant guidance

[bob]

Have you got a link for those recomendations Bob. It would be nice to make this thread irrelevant in it's entirety by posting the relevant guidance

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/afag805.pdf