Kitchen project?

[jamesd]

I intend to buy a mill, mill some wood and then construct a kitchen out of the wood.

and i was just wandering how realistic is this project?? I'm quite practical persion and i just love the idea of making my own rustic style, traditional cottage style kitchen.

Also what wood is best to use? i was thinking Traditional soo OAK maybe?

[agg221]

Practical - yes.

Slow - yes.

Frustrating - yes.

 

You're trying to do something where finish is important. The hardest thing to learn when milling is how to get even, uniform boards. This isn't insurmountable, but I would consider:

 

What type of mill - if you're only doing this as a one-off for your own enjoyment, I'd go for a Granberg Alaskan Mark III chainsaw mill - Rob D on here is your man. Chainsaw milling is very wasteful for thin boards, but it's the only realistically priced option for something on this scale. You will also need a big enough chainsaw powerhead to run it - realistically you need at least an 18" capacity, so a 2ft bar, so a 70cc+ saw and mill to suit. If you can, go bigger. If you need to buy this lot, you've just spent around £750-800 or more depending on size.

 

Timber - what can you get, from where? It's much easier with reasonable lengths, particularly for worktops. You ideally want a source of 8ft+ lengths. I would suggest that if you are wanting to use something between 19 and 25mm finished size you mill at between 30 and 35mm to start with. This may seem like a lot of waste, but you will then be sure of useful boards whereas otherwise you may be scrapping a lot.

 

Where are you going to mill? A chainsaw mill is portable but you still need to move the timber back. If you're milling at home or a yard, what do the neighbours think (do you care)?

 

Stacking and sticking - you need space to build a stack, and enough sticks for one every couple of feet on every board. These need to be dry, so you can't just use offcuts. You will then need to leave it for six months per inch of thickness to air dry. This won't get it fully dry in the UK, so you will then need somewhere really dry (e.g. indoors) to finish it off. Alternatively you need a kiln.

 

Finishing.How are you going to get sawn, slightly twisted/cupped and random/variable thickness (partly due to seasoning variations, partly due to learning to mill) boards to a uniform thickness? I would suggest getting the use of a thicknesser is your best bet, ideally with a jointer to do the edges too.

 

As to species - your choice really depending on the look you want. Oak is traditional but you would really want a grain filling finish. Beech is very traditional for kitchens and easily had as it's out of fashion. Sweet chestnut has a really nice golden look to it once fully dry. Sycamore gives you something paler. Poplar is also very pale and looks really good, but too soft for worktops (good for fronts). The only thing I personally would avoid is ash, as the open grain tends to make it look dirty very quickly, unless use a heavily grain filling finish, but that's just my opinion!

 

Alec

[jamesd]

Wow cheers for the response! some really good information in there and its much appreciated!

 

I have a decent size saw to use but will just need a new chain to use especially for milling. Is it a ariper chain? and obviously the mill itself, which i will have to look into further, although i was thinking of using an alaskan although havn't decided on the model yet.

 

As for the wood it will come from a small wood which is mostly oak (thats why i intend to use it) and it can all be milled and transported from there.

 

Storage i will either try and shed/barn store it or maybe outside with just a makeshift roof over it? As for the sticks to space it, i can make them myself would it best to use oak as well for them???

 

Finish - I think this will be the hardest task of the project getting the boards to a nice finish before making them into units will be difficult but i gues a planer could take out some of the saw lines?

 

DESIGN - i have no idea how to design a kitchen! so that will be difficult to do. But i think i'll try and make the outline in rails of oak first and then go from there.

 

Its all food for thought atm, but i'll definately be getting a mill this year and try and mill as much wood as i can soon.

 

What do you think, anything else i need to know??

[woodland dweller]

Hi James, once you have your boards dry to about 9% you will need the following to make a decent job.

Saw bench the rip the boards to oversize dimensions

thicknesser to take them back to a reasonable size, for doors and framing say 7/8 ths inch.

edge planer to square and straighten them up

saw again to finish diemensions

radial arm saw to cut to length and for cutting tenons

spindle moulder for cutting grooves for door panels

morticer

belt sander and orbital sander

then away you go, cost for above second hand about £5,000, plus a large dry workshop. My advice go buy one , been making bespoke kitchens for about 25 years it ain,t easy even with £20 grands worth of equipment.

But if you are still up for it and need some more advice just ask.

[agg221]

Hi James, once you have your boards dry to about 9% you will need the following to make a decent job.

Saw bench the rip the boards to oversize dimensions

thicknesser to take them back to a reasonable size, for doors and framing say 7/8 ths inch.

edge planer to square and straighten them up

saw again to finish diemensions

radial arm saw to cut to length and for cutting tenons

spindle moulder for cutting grooves for door panels

morticer

belt sander and orbital sander

then away you go, cost for above second hand about £5,000, plus a large dry workshop. My advice go buy one , been making bespoke kitchens for about 25 years it ain,t easy even with £20 grands worth of equipment.

But if you are still up for it and need some more advice just ask.

 

All this is good advice, but if you're doing it on the cheap, you can get away with a hand held circular saw for ripping to oversize width, either to chalkline if you've got a good eye, or held against a clamped rail if not. I tend to use a rail for more accurate stuff - a length of aluminium angle or I-channel is good.

You can use a router for a lot of the edging and profiling, again run against a clamped rail where a straight line is needed. I would buy Trend cutters and a secondhand decent router and saw on Ebay - you'd be amazed how good a deal can be had on such things (I bought a Makita circular saw with a 4" depth cut for £30 inc shipping).

You can get away with cutting mortices and tenons by hand, but using decent chisels and a mallet (if I needed these my local market has a secondhand tool stall and I'd buy Sorby or Marples and get the lot for under £20).

If you've planed up accurately, hand sanding is possible, if slow, but a cheap belt sander and random orbit sander will see you through one job (and a bit more).

Cost for the above - under £300.

 

Undeniably the above approach will take a -lot- longer, and requires a good eye and a steady hand, but if you're not working to a timeframe it can be done. I haven't done a kitchen (yet) but I've done various other things using the above.

 

For me, the biggest win was the thicknesser. I bought a secondhand DeWalt DW733 on ebay and have worked it hard. With sharp knives, the surface comes out looking almost polished and it's a perfect match from part to part. This is the really tedious bit to get right by hand (I've done it on a couple of boards that were too wide for the thicknesser, using hand planes - quicker than you might think but still too slow if the aim is to use the wood, not to make it).

 

Sticks - you want well seasoned so making your own slows the process down even more while they dry. I use old bits of pallet.

 

Alec

[muttley9050]

Alec has given you some sound advice, Modern kitchen makers use loads of tools like the ones listed by woodland dweller, but lets not forget the old boys that could doall of it with handsaws, chisels. planes etc.

If you want to make money at it then you need a lot of kit, but for you not so much, In my opinion things you cant do without.

1.Planer thicknesser. I have the same as alec dw733, but mine as a factory recon for about £340. Money welll spent.

2.Circular saw. Try and get 4" cut if you can.

3.Drill

4. orbital sander

5. powerful router(i have dewalt dw625 and love it.)

6. biscuit jointer.

7. Various hand tools. chisels, mallets,planes,saws, lots of clamps etc.

 

Table saw would be good, routertable too, but not desperate.

 

Kitchen design.

Professional kitchen makers are gunna tell you you need paneled doors and structural cupboards, but imo you dont for yourself.

Ive built a couple of small oak kitchens in the past and heres a few tips to make it easier.

 

Doors can be simple and effective, no need for fancy joinery, ledged and braced with biscuit jointed panels can work just as well as paneled doors. Can even use t hinges instead ofconcealed hinges. somethinglike these would look great. JOB LOT OF FORGED IRON GOTHIC HINGES. 24 IN ALL PLUS SCREWS!! KITCHEN, FURNITURE | eBay

Make good use of rear wall where possible to help you construct your units. Traditional kitchen dont take any real structural support from back wall, but imo the novice can use it to his advantage.

Take it on small bits at a time, and dont try to conceal everything like a modern kitchen.If you struggle with some joint use others. Eg. Rails and legs should be morticed and tenoned, but can also be half housed, so you could take one run of units, cut top and bottom rails to length, mark out where all legs go half house rails in correct places, half house legs to suit, Glue and screw from behind and you have the front of one run of cupboards. Not strictly correct but more achievable than traditional joints.

Remember this is the only part you can see without opening doors(except end panels), so if you use a few screw fixings to help you out where there not seen, who cares.

My last piece ofadvice is think hard before putting wooden worktops around sink, they never stay looking good, if you can afford a small piece of granite around sink itwould be far better.

These ideas will probably get slated by other joiners, but im also a trained carpenter, have all the tools i need, I also teach novices basic carpentry skills on weekend courses(also do a roofing course and an eco foundation course) i think its important onthese courses not to baffle people with tools needed, skills to learn but show what can be achieved with basic knowledge and tools. Sure your kitchen wont be as great when scrutinized as oneof woodland dweller, but you would need to look under cupboards or stick your head in them to notice this.

Hope this helps.

James

[timbermillers]

Just a quick word about the milling which is much more my domain. I agree with all of the above but would add, do not under estimate this task! Milling timber is not about just slicing a tree up; the way you cut the timber will save you a lot of problems further down the line.

 

Quarter-sawn boards will save you a load of wastage in the drying process and avoid cupping, shakes and all the other issues that arise during drying.

Using juvenile oak trees will result in a low yield and can carry a lot of tension resulting in bent boards.

Drying the timber is also needs some thought. Some great posts on here about both air and kiln drying. If you are using the timber for a kitchen you will have to kiln it or bring it inside to finally dry down to circa 9%.

 

I would have a play at milling before you launch into design as this will give you an indication of what you can achieve.

 

If you need anymore info on quarter sawing and/or drying let me know.

 

Good luck!

 

Good luck!

[jamesd]

Cheers for the all the help guys!

Muttley9050 i don't suppose you have got any pictures of the oak kitchens you have made?

Timbermillers my main worry is the drying process. I know little about it and worry that once its all cut and stored 6months down the line when i come to use it all they will all be bowed and split. What can i do to prevent this?

 

Thanks again, James.

[muttley9050]

Ive got some pics of one single unit i made in my livng room, only have communal kitchen,so its like a small kitchenette for tea etc. Im almost embarassed to post as it was made prior to owning a thicknesser, and using oak that had been very badly dried, warped and twisted, but will show you what can be achieved with very low grade timber. excuse pic quality please. I only found just enough of this dodgy oak in barn for visible bits, so inside is made from recycled formica from a wardrobe. Oak was so warped, i had no chance of jointing properly,so just went at it with a belt sander toget itas near as poss. Built the front as detailed earlier, screwed batons to wall and door frame, screwed boards on side from inside so not visible,belt sanded sides, did same with bottom. Madesimple doorrs, belt sanded flatish, easy way to make cupboard from badly miled/dried oak. Did my folks utility in similar way, but much nicer wood. Will get pics when im there next. Iwas trained as first and second fix construction carpenter, so knew basics of joinery. Taught myself the rest, Dont advocate this cupboard as joinery but most would have burnt the timber.

I dont think itlooks too bad. Hinges and handles were cheapest available as i was skint at time.

James

[ucoulddoit]

I've wondered about doing this as well, but now think that if I do it one day, I'll make freestanding units so that I could keep them if we move house. Things like a Welsh dresser would find a home anywhere. Re machinery, before I bought a planer thicknesser, I went to a night class for a term each winter and prepared enough timber to keep me going for the next year. You just need to persuade the tutor that you know what you are doing! Final comment is that oak can be quite difficult to dry to a standard suitable for furniture making being quite susceptible to problems such as surface checking. I've found timbers such as elm, sycamore, beech, cherry and yew are easier to dry. I would just start milling some trees and then plan what to do with the timber over the few years it will take to dry.

 

Andrew