Rates of pay?

[jaime bray]

steve this post is not aimed at you directly, but some of the content may connect with your post about cost of living going up.

 

One of the issues to consider, especially within the domestic market, is that although the cost of living has gone up. Unfortunately with some of the 'bread and butter' work that employers rely on to break even in the quiet periods or when a day just can not be as productive, increasing the price for this work is a considerably hard sales pitch from the employer to the 12 years of loyalty client.

 

There are many untrained and inexperienced people operating within the tree industry as a company or self employed gardeners/ tree companys, and many take away the bread and butter work that employers rely on. Some of which find training as they go, others pick it up as they go, others get a job in a diiferent industry when it arises. These are the people threatening the employers standard of living that he, like his employees, would like or have become accustomed too. The quality of their work may not be to dissimiliar to the work we did at the start of our careers, however, they will do their sales pitch, come in a lot cheaper and maybe for that year only, take the trade away. We all lose!!

 

Bread and butter work; okay we'll pay you bread and butter wages. Top notch work; okay we'll pay you with a golden ticket too. This situation is not feasible. There needs to be a balance set between employer and employee. If this balance is influenced by the local market and the supply and demand of tree workers/ arborists/ ground persons and the demand by the client for the work, in that area, then that is a consideration for the person to decide what they do.

 

 

If we were to turn around to full time staff and say listen lads your on 80 today as the two jobs youre doing are not good earners, but do not worry as next week i am on a right nice job where by we'll all cream it in. So you'll get 150 a day, employees would not stay with the company.

 

An additional factor maybe that employers often hear people say how good they are, only to see the person shaking like a pooping dog when arriving on site and seeing a tree of 80-120ft over a green house, with a small drop zone and awful branch structure. Prices within a company/employee/ subbie relationship will stagnate, with appropriate communication it may be resolvable.

 

If as a sub-contract climber came to me and said i want 190 a day, id say no worries, do you mind if i guarantee you a minmum of 120-150 for the first day as i am reluctant to commit to your opinion of yourself, and would rather protect my pocket and judge for myself.

 

If that person was amazingly competent, proficient, polite, punctual, conscientious and a breath of fresh air, id say, listen unfortuantely i do not get the kind of work to warrant paying someone with your skill base that figure all the time, as most of my work is relatively easy in comparison to the more taxing jobs, so ill give you a call when i get a good job for a man of your calibre. Id imagine that if the local market didnt depict that level of wage, that he'd say ok what would you pay me for a day or two here and there. If not he'd move on and work for somebody else or end up working for himself if hes that good.

 

Wages will vary not only nationally but locally, as we all have different living costs, and business models. What employees need to be aware of is that they can at any point, within the binding content of their contract walk away and go else where, sub contractors can decide, that they do not want to work for such a wage and go else where. Employers; they to have rights, and can decide what they feel is an adequate wage for them to pay staff within the law. If neither is happy, then the laws of this fine land in which we all live enable us to make arrangements for said situation to be changed.

 

It was said to me at business school that you should try and ensure that your wages, over the course of a year, equate to no more than a quarter of the company annual expenses. If this is not the case and you regulary are paying more or less then it maybe the case that something may need to be looked at.

 

If your not happy with your cars fuel consumption you change it, same as your gas supplier and wife.... If youre not happy with your employer then change it, or at least broach the subject with them in an orderly and considered manner. Why are you worth more. Put yourself in the shoes of the employer trying to justify his price to a client and justify yourself to him. If your good at it, you'll get the wage rise, if not you either drop your price or say let somebody else do it for that then, and part company.

 

 

 

Can not beleive ive write all that. Haha.

 

reference to quarter expenses, it should read turnover not expenses

[combined tree services]

without sounding harsh i do think that often people start to feel that they are what keeps the company going , what they forget is that if they left at the end of the week the company would still carry on and im most cases the position would be filled in no time at all . That being said it is still no excuse to pay poor wages .

 

If the roles were to be swapped im fairly sure that it would soon become apparent as to how much outlay there is and how little profit (on average) is made from jobs .

[swinny]

without sounding harsh i do think that often people start to feel that they are what keeps the company going , what they forget is that if they left at the end of the week the company would still carry on and im most cases the position would be filled in no time at all . That being said it is still no excuse to pay poor wages .

 

If the roles were to be swapped im fairly sure that it would soon become apparent as to how much outlay there is and how little profit (on average) is made from jobs .

 

Is this aimed at employed people? subbies or ??

[combined tree services]

It is aimed at both employed and self employed workers within the trade that rightly or wrongly feel that they warrant more money . its not a how dare you ask for more kind of thing or questioning the guys that are expected to carry out works/provide a service that is above what they are being paid.

[benedmonds]

I did read the last line of ya post slowly and carefully!!!!

 

£500 a week does not = £25k a year, Most people have things called sickness, training (refresher days) and holidays, probably 4-5 weeks a year the lucky ones might get bank holidays on top of this (not paid if your a subby) so your £25k pales in to insignificance.

 

I aint done the sums but a rough guess after tax would take your £25k to alot less than £20k (i'm only guessing this, not got a fag packet) to work it out on but it won't be to far out.

 

If you do the sums £100 a day for 230 days a year is £23,000 a year. That allows for holidays..

[eggsarascal]

Is this aimed at employed people? subbies or ??

 

Swinny, you can't win with some people mate, if the boot was on the other foot they would be screaming blue murder!!

 

Running a business is hard work BUT i believe in paying a fair days money for a fair days work, just like when i worked for other firms (i worked my balls off) to help get THEIR business going, and on the whole i was looked after well for doing so.

 

Don't stick with bosses who want to pay peanuts!!!

 

Let them use monkeys.

[skyhuck]

Swinny, you can't win with some people mate, if the boot was on the other foot they would be screaming blue murder!!

 

 

Nonsense, the boot was on the other foot, so we went and started our own businesses in order to provide a good living for our families.

 

Anyone else is free to do the same.

[eggsarascal]

If you do the sums £100 a day for 230 days a year is £23,000 a year. That allows for holidays..

 

So like i said, alot under 20k after tax, for someone self employed.

 

 

Whats ya point ?

[combined tree services]

Swinny, you can't win with some people mate, if the boot was on the other foot they would be screaming blue murder!!

 

Running a business is hard work BUT i believe in paying a fair days money for a fair days work, just like when i worked for other firms (i worked my balls off) to help get THEIR business going, and on the whole i was looked after well for doing so.

 

Don't stick with bosses who want to pay peanuts!!!

 

Let them use monkeys.

 

so is there a standard rate of pay for either climbers or groundsmen that we should work too ? if a subby is approached by a firm and he makes it clear what he charges then i cant see there would be a problem as long as thats what he is paid , for an employee i would have thought pay is discussed and documented at either the interview stage or by means of a written job offer , if your happy to take the job on the offer that has been made then i cant see there is a problem . The problem comes when the subby/employee do not clarify the pay structure .

 

as for bosses paying peanuts etc i cant think of a firm where the staff dont question their pay or feel they deserve more .

[eggsarascal]

How long was the boot on the other foot before you took the leap huck ?

 

I dare bet my life that there are many on here that moaned and winged about their pay before they had the guts/ money to go it alone.