Imported kiln dried logs - does anyone actualy buy them?

[woody woodpecker]

Hi there does not seem to be any comments from the people on here that actually sell the bloody stuff .

[Johny Walker]

if folk are that botherd about there carbon foot print ,you could always source your timber as localy as possible

[gensetsteve]

You sound like a very responsible wood burner. Somehow i can't see the 12+ million population of London (where i live) sourcing firewood from Forests within 60 mile radius... i agree it would be wonderful if that were a reality if that were possible...but it's not. We live in the real world here.

 

Burning imported wood is still more environmentally responsible than burning fossil fuels to heat our homes which have taken millions of years to form - and which a majority of the UK population choose to do. So on that basis alone it's tough to take the moral high-ground.

 

JFYI - many kilns nowadays are heated by burning wood, so the net CO2 emmissions is nil.

 

cheers

 

Is burning imported timber more environmentally than burning fossil fuels are there figures to prove this when using a new condensing boiler. Using wood to dry wood is not co2 neutral. If you use the wood to heat a home after normal seasoning that would be co2 neutral.

[Alycidon]

I have today had a quote for kiln dried Ash from Lithuania at £73 a cube, delivered to centeral England. On top of that I would probably need to pay VAT on my next return. 250mm long, MC was not stated, I did spec 16% max. 26 x 2 cube meter crates in a container, 4590 Euros per container.

 

Birch was more expensive ironically, just over £80 a cube.

 

Could certainly give CW a run for their money with that if its legit but I do wonder how much they actually sell.

 

I recon it costs me about £34 + processing costs + VAT per cube of hard, and when it goes out its 12% or so. Did buy some in last year at 18-24% at £45 a cube although I did have a couple of complaints as that is not as dry as I usually sell.

 

Food for thought anyway.

 

A

[Daniel Matthews]

Is burning imported timber more environmentally than burning fossil fuels are there figures to prove this when using a new condensing boiler. Using wood to dry wood is not co2 neutral. If you use the wood to heat a home after normal seasoning that would be co2 neutral.

 

Errr..i believe it is, Steve. As i understand, burning wood can be considered co2 neutral, due to the offset of co2 due to the trees growth. Is there some secret you are not revealing here, Steve ?

[Daniel Matthews]

Seems you've turned up a web cul de sac and found you're in the wrong place here Daniel Matthews.

 

Surely it's a bit too sweaty and dusty here for your slick global vision, where Chinese peasants are grateful for your patronage and insanely happy Malaysians bask in your waste heaps, gaily scavenging from your detritus.

 

You wont win a lot of arb friends by promoting kiln-dried logs from Turkmenistan / wherever. You sound very friendly while you're trying wipe the floor with Muttley.

 

I was told never to trust a grinning cat.

 

 

"Just saying"

 

Yes, I'm starting to wonder if i have barked up the wrong tree, so to speak. Still, what is wrong with a bit of healthy debate? Or is that not something Arborists are happy to have ?

[Tomatin Firewood]

Errr..i believe it is, Steve. As i understand, burning wood can be considered co2 neutral, due to the offset of co2 due to the trees growth. Is there some secret you are not revealing here, Steve ?

 

Timber that is felled on a commercial basis is done so by harvesters and chainsaws, forwarded, hauled, processed, stacked and delivered. New plantations (from clear fells) then have to be replanted.

 

You should consider all the Carbon costs of all these processes. I do not agree that wood is carbon neutral, but it does have a lower footprint than oil.

 

Importing kiln dried timber is only going to add to this carbon cost further and you cannot always be so sure that the chappy in Lithuania is sourcing their wood from sustainable forests (although I am sure they will tell you otherwise!).

 

Personally I think this country depends far too much on imports and now look what has happened. China has bazzillions whilst in the UK we are stuck in the worst depression since the 1928. Manufacturing needs to be brought back to this country where ever possible, as it is providing our economy jobs which in turn improves our decaying infrastructure.

 

I would much rather give my money to my competitor down the road, keeping the money in the local economy (as there is enough business for everyone) than to some faceless corporation overseas.

[muttley9050]

Errr..i believe it is, Steve. As i understand, burning wood can be considered co2 neutral, due to the offset of co2 due to the trees growth. Is there some secret you are not revealing here, Steve ?

 

Dead wood naturally combusting/lit in the wood it died in is c02 neutral, anything else has a footprint of some sort.

From what I can gather Daniel your bright idea to save the world is this.

"we've really messed up this planet burning oil, best thing to do to fix it is try to burn as much oil as we can, and hope some city dwelling engineer solves the problems for us"

This is pretty moronic.

[BestFirewoodUK]

To be fairly honest it is the global economic system that needs to be blamed for all the troubles as if timber prices would be same in every country of the world then there would be no point of importing it ( unless country cannot outsource enough of its own product which is the UK case unfortunately)

 

You cannot blame the poor Chinese for all the trouble as probably only a few of you know that China import 80% of Birch from Russia and Baltic's for instance because it simply doesn't grow in China however they make a lot of furniture and construction materials from it. How immoral isn't it as then this furniture comes back to Baltic's and Russia. China actually outsmarted many countries by keeping costs low and encouraging businesses to move there to manufacture their goods:

 

1= Chinese got lots of jobs so could keep their billion population working whilst in transition from socialism to part capitalistic system

2= China now owns us as they provide all the goods for us and can easily boycott manufacturing what will cause ultra chaos in the developed world.

3= They get all the technology there and very successfully learned to copy it. Now they manage to launch their own manned spacecrafts and are planning to go to the Moon by 2020

4= They are moving away from Dollar trade now which will cause a big trouble in the next couple of years as China holds the biggest reserve after US of dollars and bonds.

 

Coming back to the UK, costs of delivered to central UK 1m3 Kiln Dried Silver Birch which is ready to sell is around £ 78 and £74 for air dried. Considering costs which it will take to manufacture same goods here in the UK it is not much of a difference to pay for a ready to sell product. But this is not the main problem, the main problem is UK Government which decided to go Green in 6 years time by shutting down Power Plants and cutting down on Co2 by raising levy on coal. Financial Crisis isn't helping as 4 out of 10 Customer who I've served in East Anglia just had a new stove installed to help cut the bill. There are a lot of people going "green" here without realizing that local suppliers won't manage to meet with the demand.

 

9 out of 10 Firewood Merchant whom I've supplied in 2012/2013 ran out of their own logs by Christmas. They saved a lot for the season ( 600-1500m3) but that wasn't enough and they haven't got more space/time to make more anyway. If they would be importing the logs they would simply loose their customers as wouldn't be able to supply them with goods.

 

UK imports nearly 60% of all the firewood that is being burned during whole season, even more wood comes here for construction simply because they can't source enough locally and they never will.

 

According to my knowledge vikings used to bring cord from Sweden back in the 15-16th Century so importing logs isn't something that started happening recently.

 

UK will be deforested within 10 years if they stop importing wood and only consume what they have in their own woodlands.

 

Coming back to the economic system: It is simply unprofitable to deal with all the waste and **** in the world as well as deal with such low paid jobs as forest management in this country when people can make money otherwise. #

 

Well Guess I found who/what to blame. I guess there will be a lot of criticism flying my way but I don't really care as everything said above is purely my opinion, but I just felt like I need to share it with you people so that some of you wake up and see what is happening here.

 

P.S When I used to retail firewood I used to sell 1m3 of Kiln Dried Firewood for £99 delivered to local customers and that was a proper 1m3 with a 120x80x110 crate size.

I didn't want to kill the competition, I wanted people to save money and be able to spend it on other things which they probably need more in difficult times.

 

When doing wholesale I used to follow same logic of only charging what I think I've earned by doing this Job, paperwork, negotiations and handling, whilst hearing from other wholesales how easily they made £1000 profit by charging £90/m3 to desperate merchants....

[muttley9050]

Interesting, id like to see how you came up with the 60% of firewood is imported figure, how can you possibly quantify all the native timber that is burned?