Chainsaw Boots.. Why waste the money?

[RobArb]

there ARE still things such as accidents though, think another thread touched on the debate - fate/chance or choice, but thats a WHOLE nother debate:lol:

 

PPE is there for when it is needed, if you follow the laws of common sense as you state above then you will never need PPE in the instance you describe.... i suppose you could look at the analogy of insurance, you don't NEED it, but its there if you do:001_rolleyes:

[Tom10]

To answer directly to the thread title - because they have chainsaw protection in as opposed to work boots that dont?

 

But dont worry about it, there's plenty of donor feet out there, after all your saving a few quid so its worth it!

[Mesterh]

I started this thread on a bit of a whim.

 

I was taking off my ordinary work boots which I’ve used for treework for quite a while and wondered if any one else had made the same choice.

 

I work as climber, then groundy, then chipper…mashing up on the truck, then log processor.

 

I have a rule that each cut is like my first year in and year out.

 

I don’t ever make a cut without checking where my feet are and that I have a sound footing.

 

My original post prompted a couple of angryish responses due to the wording.

 

Perhaps I should have written it more this way in the beginning.

 

The end result is the same though. I don’t use chainsaw boots and wondered what others thought.

 

I don’t see the point in them because you shouldn’t ever make a single cut without knowing where your feet are.

 

I really do expect you to check this for every cut you ever make...I do.

 

Surely though with experience this isnt necessary as it becomes automatic?

 

In regards to the OP I suppose it could be considered a waste if you get to the end of your working career and have never had to rely on the protection from the PPE but up until that point then I don't think it can be seen a waste of money.

[Albedo]

To answer directly to the thread title - because they have chainsaw protection in as opposed to work boots that dont?

 

But dont worry about it, there's plenty of donor feet out there, after all your saving a few quid so its worth it!

 

It takes a long time to pick all the bits of kevlar out of a chainsaw wound

[Albedo]

Surely though with experience this isnt necessary as it becomes automatic?

 

In regards to the OP I suppose it could be considered a waste if you get to the end of your working career and have never had to rely on the protection from the PPE but up until that point then I don't think it can be seen a waste of money.

 

IMO it becomes semi automatic, I'm conscious that I'm doing it every time:001_smile:

[rovers90]

As the cost works out at less than £1 per day and most people spend more than that on the paper, cup of coffee, cigarettes, beer,etc I don't think there is an argument for not wearing them.

[Albedo]

As the cost works out at less than £1 per day and most people spend more than that on the paper, cup of coffee, cigarettes, beer,etc I don't think there is an argument for not wearing them.

 

This is a fair point....What is the argument for not wearing them other than cost

 

 

1) A lot of climbers prefer less bulky non chainsaw boots for climbing but agree chainsaw boots for grounding….Do they change boots when they come out of the tree and start grounding?

 

2) Do chainsaw boots give a false sense of security?

 

I wear type c trousers by the way at all times, a helmet and ear and eye protection. Just don't use saw boots.

 

Saves me about 140 quid every 2 years. I spend way more than that on beer, wine and fags.

 

Pointless thread really:001_smile: I guess I now have everyones opinion and it killed four evenings of boring telly.

[Tom10]

It takes a long time to pick all the bits of kevlar out of a chainsaw wound

 

Even longer picking cheap leather out of one.

[treepanda]

Mr L200log can be excused for his angry response.

 

I could have just asked if people use chainsaw boots.

 

Because I said they are a waste of money...he sees this as irresponsible, which it probably was. So he was justifiably fuming mad about it.

I am with you, the last Arb Climber mag had tests of chainsaw boots and basically it's the quality of the leather that provides the bulk of the protection. I sold my Meindls after working in 35 degrees and my feet rotted in them because they don't breath. I wear good quality Redwing steel cap boots...PPE is the last resort... training, experience and open mindedness should be used to make a judgement call on where in the safety hierarchy you place PPE

[KingoftheRing]

I am going to take my point a step further, to some extent addressing Skyhucks point that the PPE is there for unforeseen circumstances or accidents.

 

I intend to argue that some accidents / incidents / events, should not be allowed to happen because the end result is too serious or painful.

 

An example of an ‘accident’ or in my view… foreseeable and avoidable incident was reported here on arbtalk a few years ago.

 

A climber descended a tree to clear a limb that was being lowered but had hung up on a stub. It was too heavy to lift so he cut bits off it off. Whilst clearing it he cut his rope below his prussic and didn’t notice, he descended to clear some more and came off his line. He suffered terrible injuries falling on concrete and serious head injuries due in part to not having his helmet strap done up.

 

Due to the H&S investigation no further detail was released. H&S will (probably) blame the incident on elements of the lowering procedure, helmet straps, lack of secondary attachment, work pressure etc. They won’t spot the actual cause

 

It is my guess that he broke some cardinal rules which can never be broken if you intend to stay alive or not badly injured. The main one being that he must have become annoyed at having to descend and sort the situation. Otherwise how could he cut his main line and not notice unless he was flustered or hurried in some way.

 

Because of this lapse in procedure he paid a heavy price. The cardinal rule in this case being ‘never allow yourself to become annoyed/flustered/rushed up a tree’. If , for example, your saw is annoying you because it keeps stalling, then fix it…never get increasingly annoyed and carry on… you will get hurt.

 

It is my whole argument that safety is about knowing that there are some areas of personal work discipline that must be stuck to at all times. If you allow yourself to become lax on this discipline there are no health and safety regs or items of PPE that are going to save you. You are going to get hurt badly.

 

I will just throw in as well that kickback, is often talked about and was mentioned by Skyhuck in his list of potential ‘accidents’. There is no mystery to kickback and it is 100% avoidable if you understand how it works and adhere to the kind of discipline I am describing here. Just don’t catch the end of the bar on things. Working on the ground set up logs for cutting so they are clear of other logs. Don’t hold them in place with your foot ever.. the saw can skid into your foot and chainsaw boots won’t save you.

 

If anyone reads this who knows the guy in this incident then I mean him no disrespect. I hope he would understand that I am using this incident to illustrate a point in order to help avoid future serious incidents (not accidents).

 

This is very similar to an article I read from an American car crash investigator. He stated that there are no such things as car "accidents", only car "crashes". His main premise was that everything can be traced back to human error. For example, speeding, not paying attention, not keeping the car serviced regularly, driving whilst feeling ill, the mechanic not tightening a bolt to the correct torque etc etc.

 

While I actually agree with this theory, I also accept that we are human. As such, we do make mistakes and these cause incidents to happen.

 

I may perform my duties carefully and to the best of my abilities, but others may not. This could result in me getting hurt. Whatever the cause is doesn't matter if the effect is that someone gets injured.

 

That's why I wear PPE, it offers some form of protection to guard against human error, whether my own or someone else's.