Christians on arbtalk?

[WorcsWuss]

Well done all! It's not often I can be ar&ed to read 20 pages of a thread to catch up!

I'd like to take a moment to qualify a couple of things from my post at the start of this and ask a couple of questions of some believers.

 

1. Although I don't believe a word of it [except perhaps that a fella going by the name of Jesus might have lived a while ago and became quite popular somehow], both my oldest children go to church schools, are full on believers, do Sunday school and love questioning why I don't believe.... But I have never discouraged them from believing.

 

2. I am open to be proved wrong [as I am in all things in life!], in the unlikely event that I do rock up at the pearly gates I will eat my words. But I don't let that potential occurence colour the way I live my life, I live my life as I do because making people's lives a tiny bit better makes me feel like I've earned my place in society and I do that for no one but myself.

 

Now, questions...

 

1. The bible is often quoted as being the word of god... I thought it was written by people who are alleged to have known Jesus, or known people who knew him, mostly some considerable time after his death, and then edited by some Romans....? There's the odd quote in there but over many years and many translations that seems a bit like chinese whispers to me...? Is that basically right or is there unquestionable evidence to prove otherwise?

 

2. Who claimed that Jesus had been sent here by his dad, god, to die for us...? Was it Jesus? And if so, why does no one believe anyone when they claim to be his reincarnation these days? Is it because back then with a more limited understanding of the world, if someone could get enough support behind them people were too under-developed to see past this? Or was he somehow far more convincing...? Was it the miracles that convinced thousands of people he was special? Or was it just great sleight of hand and the people at the front of the crowd bought it and it rippled out through everyone and became 'gospel'...?

 

I am utterley fascinated by religion. Not so much for it's social effects, these are well documented throughout history, but the individual events and places which combined to create the greatest story ever told I find spellbinding. I cannot see me ever becoming a believer but one thing I will fight anyone who says otherwise over, is that religion and belief structures have created the most colourful and fascinating cronicle of human development one could imagine.

 

One final observation, although unintentional I hope, I notice [and am guilty of it myself] that believers and non-believers both look upon each other with a degree of condescension, pity, amusement, superiority & perhaps overinflated sense of their own intellectual capacity, either for seeing beyond that which we can see and 'knowing' there is something else out there, or for knowing that we are the beginning and the end, are pretty insignificant and are more enlightened for not needing the crutch of a higher power.

 

It's a midlly amusing situation when you stand back and look at it, both sides think the other's a bit daft. But then when one side feels they're being villified for that stance, they become far more aggressive than their alleged enlightenment would suggest reasonable...

 

Curious creatures human beans, convinced of our own importance and that we know it all....

Edited February 28, 2012 by WorcsWuss

[Graham]

I am unafraid these dyas of mans effects, life re distributed and re evolved after the meteors that saw an end to the reign of dinosaurs, when we have raped the earth and killed our own kind off things will once more be natural. Just not in its present form.

 

life has a tenacity

 

If we look at the history of the earth as we know it then there is an inevitability that in 1k, 10k or 50 thousand years things will have changed beyond any comprehension we have now.

 

Nothing is stable in the universe and all it takes is a stray meteor to alter things radically. All we can do is ensure we take care of the earth in the short time we're destined to be here.

 

There again I could be wildly wrong:001_smile:

[arbogrunt]

not a religous person myself, but I do have spiritual beliefs. We live in a Christian country and our way of life, laws and the way we conduct our lives are founded on Christian values. I respect that.

[Treecreeper1961]

 

1. Although I don't believe a word of it [except perhaps that a fella going by the name of Jesus might have lived a while ago and became quite popular somehow], both my oldest children go to church schools, are full on believers, do Sunday school and love questioning why I don't believe.... But I have never discouraged them from believing.

 

2. I am open to be proved wrong [as I am in all things in life!], in the unlikely event that I do rock up at the pearly gates I will eat my words. But I don't let that potential occurence colour the way I live my life, I live my life as I do because making people's lives a tiny bit better makes me feel like I've earned my place in society and I do that for no one but myself.

 

 

 

One final observation, although unintentional I hope, I notice [and am guilty of it myself] that believers and non-believers both look upon each other with a degree of condescension, pity, amusement, superiority & perhaps overinflated sense of their own intellectual capacity, either for seeing beyond that which we can see and 'knowing' there is something else out there, or for knowing that we are the beginning and the end, are pretty insignificant and are more enlightened for not needing the crutch of a higher power.

 

It's a midlly amusing situation when you stand back and look at it, both sides think the other's a bit daft. But then when one side feels they're being villified for that stance, they become far more aggressive than their alleged enlightenment would suggest reasonable...

 

Curious creatures human beans, convinced of our own importance and that we know it all....

 

It is the human way. Most of us believe our own ego. I know I do, I know I'm right.

Now, who is it that is going to inherit the Earth? The wise and self assured isn't it?

 

Mildly amusing perhaps, but it ain't funny.

[firewood]

The problem with religion in general (aside from the obviously enormous leap of faith required to believe even a fraction of the Bible, or any other religion text for that matter) is that it challenges the very foundation of self determinism.

 

I strongly believe that I, do to a greater or lesser extent, have the right to determine my own 'destiny'. The notion of 'God's Plan' is counter to that, and I reject it.

 

It's often argued that Science is in itself a belief system. I have no problem with that at all though - I am happy to believe in extremely clever people who must evidence each theory they tout rather than a 2000 year old text that claims that people can be created from ribs and live for 970 years!

 

Good film to watch is Religulous btw!

 

But most of what you say is in theory possible a la jurrasic park and a bit of genetic engineering lol.

 

http://www.kinnoirwoodfuel.co.uk

[Pete Mctree]

Religion is like smoking

- enjoyed by those who are addicted

- those in the grasp see no bad or harm in there dirty habit.

- those who quit go on to be healthier & more socially acceptable

 

I can continue if need be......

[Al Baker]

Thank god I'm an atheist.

Actually I always did prefer non prophet organizations.

[TRADITIONAL LOGGERS]

Religion is like smoking

- enjoyed by those who are addicted

- those in the grasp see no bad or harm in there dirty habit.

- those who quit go on to be healthier & more socially acceptable

 

I can continue if need be......

 

 

I have friends who believe and those who don't but I dislike the constant "one should believe in this" and dammed to hell for those who don't.

 

Humans like animals are all different but seen too much double standards in religion.

 

I was invited to an Alpha meeting in Australia with friends so had the meal and left before all the blah.

 

People don't need to be religious to be nice!

[alex_m]

anyone remember this? i saw a bumper sticker today with the same slogan.

 

[Al Baker]

mother nature is the all more powerful and true to me:laugh1:

 

Hear hear