Small scale timber extraction

[NI Tree]

horse

[northumbriaforestry]

Quad & small timber trailer with hydraulic crane. If the timbers to big for the crane, we skid it out on a log arch. Quick, cheap, easy to maintain, easy to transport behind the Landy & very light footprint on woodland floor, important as many of our sites are sensitive areas.

[muldonach]

What are the best solutions that people have found for small scale timber extraction?

 

Mini-forwarders and alpine tractors are obviously at the premium end of the market, and horse logging is great in some situations, but what about something more run of the mill for sites that don't justify a full size tractor and timber trailer?

 

Are quads really suitable, or more of a plaything? How about a 4x4, like a Defender maybe with diff locks? Conventional compact tractor?

 

I was talking to someone who had been using a converted dumper truck that sounded quite handy, anyone else tried that?

 

 

We forward small diameter timber with a quad and a forwarding trailer - no crane so has to be reasonably small timber.

 

Needs a reasonably powerful quad (500cc copes fine for us) and good tires, we also pick our days for forwarding and avoid wet and soft ground. Quad is easy to get, forwarding trailer is expensive for what you get but works well and tows very easy, be careful of slopes and don't push your luck. Definitely no plaything and quite good over long distances - some of our drags at the moment are 1km so it is good to be able to open the quad up a bit. Never used one with a crane but could be tempted, suspect would need a more powerful quad again.

 

 

A 4x4 road vehicle is imo not a good option, fine if you just want to shift a couple of sticks after that forget it - you would be far better off with a small conventional tractor fitted with a small winch. I have done some skidding in the summer with a MF 35 and found it pretty good (good ground and short distances). We have used the landy on occasion and don't rate it - too many bits to catch underneath, pull brake pipes off etc, Small tractors are always easy to sell if they are runners.

 

A tracked dumper with a timber loadbed and a crane would be an excellent package I would have thought but have never used one myself, would certainly like to try. From using diggers I would reckon steel tracks are greatly to be preferred but interested to hear what the people using them think.

 

Cheers

mac

Edited October 24, 2011 by muldonach

[difflock]

Erm,

as a bog trotter, I feel that the rest of yousens are unfamiliar with the extreme difficulties in working in 3m deep "rank moss".

I need sommat with wide tracks, which are of course more likely to get popped off on a stump.

Bugger!

PS Aside from the costs a tracked dumper might be a runner.

Re the rubber/steel track question.......... having experience with rubber tracks on a 360 excavator, and very poor, had to pull her off the job, but back a year later with similar size steel tracks on the very same ground conditions and was a different machine entirely.

Quite astounding the difference the change in tracks made.

Cheers

M

Edited October 24, 2011 by difflock

[difflock]

****************

But actually it would probably be more cost effective to purchase a suitable low ground pressure machine, than to pave a suitable roadway in.

Mooroka? (& check spelling) here I come!

Cheers

M

I were too late to edit my last post btw

[Charlieh]

What are the best solutions that people have found for small scale timber extraction?

 

Mini-forwarders and alpine tractors are obviously at the premium end of the market, and horse logging is great in some situations, but what about something more run of the mill for sites that don't justify a full size tractor and timber trailer?

 

Are quads really suitable, or more of a plaything? How about a 4x4, like a Defender maybe with diff locks? Conventional compact tractor?

 

I was talking to someone who had been using a converted dumper truck that sounded quite handy, anyone else tried that?

 

Its very much situation dependant,

 

Mini forwarders are awesome, I have recently started operating an alstor its got a two ton payload ultra low ground pressure will drive over most terrain and will pull out 50ton a day on reasonable sites. The same with alpines not quite as good on the terrain as the alstor, but can run other implements such as flails and processors which is a big plus.

 

My quad is great with a logging arch on the back, but its not quick for production but for personal firewood its a cheap option as is the 4x4. they cant handle the terrain that the above can. One plus for the atv and 4x4 is once onto rides if its a haul back to a yard or hard standing they are generally pretty quick so if your hauling on decent rides more than 250mtrs these will speed the operation up significantly on stuff you can hand load onto a trailer, although you probably will only be looking at getting out a few tons per day this method as you will get worn out quickly.

[difflock]

What are the economics of extracting 50 tonne per day, once finance, depreciation, plus fuel and labour costs are included, surely it is quite/very expensive? timber.

All purely based on "gut" feelings.

Edited October 24, 2011 by difflock

[Charlieh]

What are the economics of extracting 50 tonne per day, once finance, depreciation, plus fuel and labour costs are included, surely it is quite/very expensive? timber.

All purely based on "gut" feelings.

 

 

Im not 100% sure yet, as i say im just operating it not bought it. I think given its niche in the market and its likely to be on sensitive sites then its a good option. Its not going into conifer clearfells and the likes as thats for the bigger kit. It only uses about 7ltrs of red diesel a day so thats not to bad and the components are all easy to source parts not specialist, so that keeps the cost down for example the drive chains are the same o-ring chains as used on moto-x bikes, and the bearings are all common sizes. The research on the alstor shows that in terms of cost it sits somewhere between dedicated forwarder and tractor+forwarding trailer in terms of cost, so it is competative on price. The big benefit is you can tow it to site behind a 4x4 not have to haul it on a lorry so if you have a small woodland with say 25tons to come out its a viable prospect to get it in for a day.

 

Prior to using it i was very sceptical that it was just a glorified atv and timber trailer, having used it for a week I will confirm that its defiantly not, Its far superior to most other vehicles in a woodland, and will travel over terrain that set ups such as a county and 5ton trailer will struggle on.

[Daniël Bos]

Mooroka here I come!

Cheers

 

Here you go!

 

2001 Yanmar C30R-1 tracked dumper with 1000kg hiab,2.5t | eBay

 

On the subject of tracks, I've found steel to be quite inferior tbh. I used a 13t 360 on really wide (1.2m) plastic tracks (they were not rubber, they were some sort of hd plastic, in blue) with massive lugs on (30cm's) They were awesome, we were clearing small trees from a site with 6m of peat, the watertable level with the soil. had a grab ont the digger, just plucking the trees out, great fun.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Daniël Bos

[muldonach]

What are the economics of extracting 50 tonne per day, once finance, depreciation, plus fuel and labour costs are included, surely it is quite/very expensive? timber.

All purely based on "gut" feelings.

 

I would not run my figures on 50t per day - Alstor quote 20-50 cubic metres per day. The FC did a technical evaluation on the machine (2001)

 

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/ODW906.pdf/$FILE/ODW906.pdf

 

but the machine will have moved on a bit since then one would hope.

 

I'd certainly be interested to hear some more details of what Charlie is doing with the machine, what kind of timber and ground he is working on and how far he is moving the timber. Any chance of some pics Charlie?

 

Cheers

mac