Do you need CS41 to carry out dismantling?

[Dan Curtis]

Sorry matey but you are wrong

You would only need 41 if lowering

CS 39 now covers vertical pieces and step cuts so you CAN dismantle a tree unless you use a rope.

It does not matter what size or anything

But obviously you sho

uld build up your experience

 

fair enough, it didn't when I did mine, nor did my 38 or 39 cover cutting on a pole the proper way they teach now. I.e main line choked to stem. So lets forget I have a 41, where do I stand on dismantling? Is my older qualification now invalid or am I just not up to date with industry best practice training, though i still have a year left before refresher is due?

[skyhuck]

fair enough, it didn't when I did mine, nor did my 38 or 39 cover cutting on a pole the proper way they teach now. I.e main line choked to stem. So lets forget I have a 41, where do I stand on dismantling? Is my older qualification now invalid or am I just not up to date with industry best practice training, though i still have a year left before refresher is due?

 

But you know all these new things right, so what the problem??

 

When I did my driving test there were a great many things not included that are now on the test, I can do all the things on the current test, but feel no need to go get the piece of paper.

[Dan Curtis]

I'm not trying to point out what I know, more the failings of the qualification system we are supposed to adhere to:thumbup:

 

Cs quals are almost unlimited, though having a ticket doesn't mean you're capable. Likewise, there are a lot of more than capable people who don't have the relevant tickets

[Tom D]

are nptc tickets a legal requirement or a recommended requirement

 

that's a very good question, they are not, despite what people will tell you a LEGAL requirement, they are however considered to be proof of competence.

Proof of competence is important if you are involved in any kind of claim through the courts because if a lawyer can argue that you are not competent then you could be in trouble. NPTC's are a cheap way of buying competence (yes I know that is open to debate). If a cutter with 30 years ecperience was being charged with causing an accident / injury his lawyer has to proove that he was competent to carry out the task that went wrong and led to the accident. So in theory a fresh out of colledge kid is, in the eyes of the law, more "competent" than a cutter with a working lifetime of experience.

 

This was turned on its head however when in "Poll vs Bartholomew" when an unqualified worker was deemed to have sufficient experience to inspect a tree despite having no formal tree inspection qualifications.

 

I suspect that if you can prove that you are "competent" despite having no NPTC's then you would be ok in court. The difficulty is in the proving.... You may have been on the tools for years, and still be a complete numpty. NPTC standardises the whole thing, so while we may argue over wether the standards are high enough, personally I think not, the end result is universally recognised system which when the **** hits the fan could save your business from a very big bill.

[bob]

the HSE recommends so basically they are the law so in that case it,s about as legal a requirement as their is tbh.

But that is proof of competency

[Tom D]

Not really Bob, "Recommends" is the key word there take the driving liscence, that has its own legislation, as does Employers liability.

 

this really needs a test case. I suspect that a non nptc'd worker could prove competence under the right circumstances.

[Al Duffill]

Recommend does not mean insist it means, imo, its desirable or worthy, so on that basis it implies that you do not need a certificate of competance. I asked our Health and safety guy for a copy the BS for Tree works, "we havn't got it" i was told, "why?" says I, "because they are recommendations,not lawful"(thats another topic tho). Its all a bit confusing and frustrating.

 

I don't want to stir up a hornets nest at work,we are going through big changes at the mo and wouldn't want to jepordise mine or my colleagues jobs, so I guess I'll keep lowering and chucking bits of tree down knowing that I'm doing it as competant as I can, until there is a definative lawful absolute requirement that I need a ticket.

[Al Duffill]

well get this.....HSE ????

 

I was a bouncy castle owner for 15yrs, based on a beach, it was a static postion - so no hiring out of kit.

 

all over the country people were injured and maimed by irresponsible owners setting up in windy conditions.

 

bouncy castles turn into kites with gust.

 

our insurance would double year on year with claims from around the country.

 

not once did ever have an accident.

 

my skills at setting up, running and moving them would make a great HSE leaflet........but would they want one??

 

we'll live and learn:thumbdown:

 

 

 

Could you tell us how to set one up under a tree, would make for a quick descent

[lawranced1]

As a compliance manager I would not allow or instruct anyone to do something they were not trained to do, where it comes to being competant I do not think that is enough where working at height with a chainsaw is concerned it's just not worth the risk, I say you should go through the training, having said sometimes things go wrong even if you have passed the cert. but that is just my opinion.

[likeitorlumpit]

So....

None of us really know

Blinking frustrating