Nptc

[Khriss]

Just to throw a fly in the ointment' date=' hypothetically....

 

 

 

Lets say I want to stand on the ground and fell a large stem, with one limb attached to it, by removing it with a crane.

 

For a particular situation, this is agreed to be the best, simplist and safest way to carry out the job.

 

Do I need 41, as I am dismantling with rigging, albeit not from a rope and harness, as I am stood on the ground?

 

Do I need 44 felling a standing stem? - But is it a standing stem? Its more than that, as it has a limb attached still.

 

Do I need 33, felling large trees? - But I'm not felling it, I'm lifting it.

 

A forester with 33 but no dismantling ticket can't do it then!

 

A tree surgeon with 41 and 44 can't do it, as its still got a limb attached and is therefore not a standing pole!

 

Just a bit of fun! Discuss.

 

What's anyone think?

 

For the record, I have 41 and 33 and so felt I was appropriatly qualified in the eyes of the law![/quote']

 

LOL ! NPTC = Rubbish- couldnt be bothered ( and I used to train ) I know when a lad is competent after 5minutes obs- sadly not as common as it might be K

[Tom D]

Whilst its not law to have NPTC as such if an employee dies or is injured whilst carrying out a task for which he does'nt have a ticket then the employer can end up in jail. Likewise even a sole trader could end up in trouble if there was an accident involving a member of the public if he had'nt got the required ticket for the task.

I'm not saying I agree with this but that's the way it is. A solution might be tougher tests, when I did 39 I was the last to be tested so i agreed to be a dummy for a guy who was re-sitting his 38. He had 40 mins to get me down and he needed most of them, IMO 20 or 25 mins would be better and the 5 days training should be spaced out over a period of weeks or months so the candidate could get some experience and then sit a tougher exam.

[Marc]

Whilst its not law to have NPTC as such if an employee dies or is injured whilst carrying out a task for which he does'nt have a ticket then the employer can end up in jail. Likewise even a sole trader could end up in trouble if there was an accident involving a member of the public if he had'nt got the required ticket for the task.

 

From what I know this is not true, even someone with nptc's can end up in serious trouble if they injured a member of public though lack of due care. Even if a member of public gets injured after every precaution to keep them safe was undertaken (which is highly unlikley) nptc or not you'll get screwed, thats what insurance is for.

 

I've known of colleagues get injured on the job and not had the appropiate nptc qaulifications for the task whilst it may of lead to the HSE asking some more indepth question as to why no appropiate training had been taken or why he was given the task, its just been treated as an accident just the same.

 

I certainly don't worry about rigging without my ticket i have tickets to say i can climb and use a chainsaw in the tree, accounts to prove i've been in this job a long time etc. If I was new and given a task i wasn't capable of doing i think the hse could find out and bring legal proccedings on the employer.

 

Otherwise i don't think the HSE could prove i wasn't up to the task purley because i hadn't done a few days training and an hours nptc assesment, as that in itself does not make you competent.

[Tom D]

From what I know this is not true, even someone with nptc's can end up in serious trouble if they injured a member of public though lack of due care. Even if a member of public gets injured after every precaution to keep them safe was undertaken (which is highly unlikley) nptc or not you'll get screwed, thats what insurance is for.

 

I've known of colleagues get injured on the job and not had the appropiate nptc qaulifications for the task whilst it may of lead to the HSE asking some more indepth question as to why no appropiate training had been taken or why he was given the task, its just been treated as an accident just the same.

 

 

I'm not saying NPTC makes you immune from prosecution, just that if you have'nt got it prosecuting you is so much easier. Likewise unless an accident is very serious a lack of tickets is unlikely to land you in serious trouble. However if things do go badly wrong and there's a mob of angry relatives wanting a scapegoat you're better off having it.

There is a farmer near here who did time after a worker was killed by a telehandler. The worker had no ticket they decided that the ticket could have saved his life as it specificaly said "dont do that" and he did do that.

[Mesterh]

You may also find that insurers tell you to "get lost" in the event of trying to claim and not have proof that you have undertaken any training. Just because people have been in the industry for years doesnt mean they are doing it right.

 

It's like most things in life nothing matters and nobody cares until something goes wrong!

 

Look at all the unisured idiots on the road that dont need a license because they "know" how to drive.

 

I'm not having a go at anyone but this day and age it's best to cover your back since thats what everyone else is doing.

[Mr. Bish]

More inforced legislation = more work for us and less cowboys.

 

If chainsaw sales were criminilised (Like guns) unless you hold a valid cert. There would be far fewer accidents and our profession would be more highly regarded.

 

Thats an extreme but the same system should be applied to tree work. I don't hold anything above 39 but if it was actually going to be inforced I would get the paperwork.

[Peter]

Ah yes, because since gun control was last tightened in this country, illegal gun ownership and assciated gun crime has all but disappeared.

[Marc]

You may also find that insurers tell you to "get lost" in the event of trying to claim and not have proof that you have undertaken any training. Just because people have been in the industry for years doesnt mean they are doing it right.

 

It's like most things in life nothing matters and nobody cares until something goes wrong!

 

Look at all the unisured idiots on the road that dont need a license because they "know" how to drive.

 

.

 

Insurers may tell you to get lost for any reason they can get away with, and i'm not saying you should not undertake training the opposite in fact.

 

Driving without insurance is slightly different to someone who has some training, bags of experience and insurance. There is no comparison.

 

What is shocking in my opinion is that NPTC is seen as proving you've had training and are up to the task, this is a serious issue and needs looking at. You can pass your chainsaw from a rope and harness in as little as 8 hours training and assesment, or get all your tickets in a few months without any real world experience.

And this is what we are judge by!

 

I'm really just losing the will to live with this crap now so i'm out! My opinions and views are just wrong, and heaven forbid if i do do something bad i deserve to go to jail for not having my common sense ticket.

 

On a final note i will do all the important NPTC units for my daily tasks, not because i worry about invalidating my insurance or getting proseceuted, just because i believe its the professional thing to do.

[Mesterh]

Driving without insurance is slightly different to someone who has some training, bags of experience and insurance. There is no comparison.

 

I didnt explain that bit very well I meant people with no license therefore not covered by there insurance etc.

[THE88MAN]

nptc is a good idea in principle,i took all mine way back in 1993-94 after advice from my district forester,it was all about weeding out cowboys then and us "pro's" would reap the benefit and command higher fees for our work.i even did the windblow certificate which i was assured would make me "specialist",to this day i have been asked for references,insurances,portfolios etc but never an nptc certificate,tell a lie,once on some crap weekend railway clearance work i did because times were hard