fuel....we are mugs!!

[Big J]

As has already been highlighted on this thread so far, taxation is the main reason that we pay so much at the pump. We have the highest rates of fuel duty and tax in the world. I hold no ill feeling towards the oil companies as a whole - with several friends who work offshore, I know how much work is involved in producing fuel. When you think that a litre of the stuff only costs about 60 pence before tax, it's not that bad.

 

Regarding tax however, the exchequer's enormous need for fuel tax income can be traced to:

 

* Our grossly inefficient bureaucratic system. We have so many jobs that exist for literally no purpose. There should be a huge drive to force every job to be justified. If you don't produce a tangible product, or offer a tangible service, the job shouldn't exist.

 

* Reproduction has become a career choice for the lower classes. Having a kid should not get you a house. If you are up the duff and can't support yourself, you have two options - abortion or adoption. I'm sorry if that offends, but the thought that my bloody hard earned tax money goes to support armies of Kaydens, Kayleighs, Kylies and Kerrys makes me feel a little ill.

 

* The NHS is an unfortunate example of a chronically inefficient tax sink. £111,000,000,000 a year. I'm a strong believer in responsibility for one's actions and I believe that if you smoke, are obese or have wrecked your liver with heavy drinking, you should pay for your treatment yourself. For instance, my wife's best friend died in March from Leukemia. She had numerous complications along the way, including almost complete lung failure. She would however not have qualified for a lung transplant as she had Leukemia, as supply is short. A life long smoker, having wrecked their own lungs, would in many circumstances have been eligible.

 

I could rant on, but I'm finding myself getting increasingly bitter about the state of affairs in the UK. One popularly vilified element of society I have no problem with is immigrants. In all honesty, the vast majority of them work much harder than Joe Average. I'd quite happily trade our 'Jeremy Kyle' class for a plethora of folk from overseas!

 

Jonathan

[Mark James]

As has already been highlighted on this thread so far, taxation is the main reason that we pay so much at the pump. We have the highest rates of fuel duty and tax in the world. I hold no ill feeling towards the oil companies as a whole - with several friends who work offshore, I know how much work is involved in producing fuel. When you think that a litre of the stuff only costs about 60 pence before tax, it's not that bad.

 

Regarding tax however, the exchequer's enormous need for fuel tax income can be traced to:

 

* Our grossly inefficient bureaucratic system. We have so many jobs that exist for literally no purpose. There should be a huge drive to force every job to be justified. If you don't produce a tangible product, or offer a tangible service, the job shouldn't exist.

 

* Reproduction has become a career choice for the lower classes. Having a kid should not get you a house. If you are up the duff and can't support yourself, you have two options - abortion or adoption. I'm sorry if that offends, but the thought that my bloody hard earned tax money goes to support armies of Kaydens, Kayleighs, Kylies and Kerrys makes me feel a little ill.

 

* The NHS is an unfortunate example of a chronically inefficient tax sink. £111,000,000,000 a year. I'm a strong believer in responsibility for one's actions and I believe that if you smoke, are obese or have wrecked your liver with heavy drinking, you should pay for your treatment yourself. For instance, my wife's best friend died in March from Leukemia. She had numerous complications along the way, including almost complete lung failure. She would however not have qualified for a lung transplant as she had Leukemia, as supply is short. A life long smoker, having wrecked their own lungs, would in many circumstances have been eligible.

 

I could rant on, but I'm finding myself getting increasingly bitter about the state of affairs in the UK. One popularly vilified element of society I have no problem with is immigrants. In all honesty, the vast majority of them work much harder than Joe Average. I'd quite happily trade our 'Jeremy Kyle' class for a plethora of folk from overseas!

 

Jonathan

 

You just can't think like that, if that was the mainstream view of how to run the NHS it would be turning away people from car accidents just because they chose to drive their car.

 

That's an extreme example but what about hillwalkers who fall while walking, they choose to do that. Do they deserve all the money spent on them to get them of a hill and then treatment at A&E. Thats not including all the extreme sports that carry a high risk of possible long term care in the NHS.

 

My wifes is a nurse in a crazy A&E and we have had similar debates about this subject. She agrees that it is frustrating to see people requiring treatment because of illnesses and diseases that their lifestlye has caused, in contrast to those who develop cancer or long term conditions out of the blue, to which their lifestlye and choices has not played a part.

 

We have first hand experience of this as my wife has a long term condition that means she needs to access the NHS as a service user, and not as a member of staff and she has previously been pulling her hair out at how the money is spent and how she cannot access specific treatment for her condition because of money restrictions, but you can't look to blame smokers, drinker and drug users, just because they chose to do that.

 

My point is it is just difficult to draw the line about who deserves what, and as far as i see it this will always be the case.

[Cracker]

 

If you don't produce a tangible product, or offer a tangible service, the job shouldn't exist.

 

Then what happens to the people without jobs?

[Big J]

I understand your sentiment, but if you are a heavy smoker, drinker, eater or drug user, the only consequence to the considered, systematic and long abuse of your body is that you are going to require medical attention. I don't think that you can compare that to people who have constructive hobbies and suffer accidents, or expect for those people who develop illnesses without fault to have to wait due to the number of 'addicts' on the waiting lists. It is a difficult subject, and a debate that in essence either justifies or undermines the NHS. As a non-smoker, moderate drinker, non-drug using person of average weight and good health, I'd rather pay for medical insurance than have my tax money fund a liver transplant for an alcoholic.

 

Jonathan

[Big J]

Then what happens to the people without jobs?

 

If you go back 50 or 60 years, employment was much higher and we were still a manufacturing nation. I don't think that a return to that state is impossible. That said, I think the work ethic that once existed in the UK has more or less gone from the young generation. There is a culture or expectancy, that simply by having the good fortune of being born in this country, we are entitled to an easy life.

 

If all else fails, see my earlier abortion/adoption remark, with an addendum for enforced sterilisation of serial reproducers !

[Mark James]

I understand your sentiment, but if you are a heavy smoker, drinker, eater or drug user, the only consequence to the considered, systematic and long abuse of your body is that you are going to require medical attention. I don't think that you can compare that to people who have constructive hobbies and suffer accidents, or expect for those people who develop illnesses without fault to have to wait due to the number of 'addicts' on the waiting lists. It is a difficult subject, and a debate that in essence either justifies or undermines the NHS. As a non-smoker, moderate drinker, non-drug using person of average weight and good health, I'd rather pay for medical insurance than have my tax money fund a liver transplant for an alcoholic.

 

Jonathan

 

There's no reply to that, lets hope for your sake that everyone you get close to in life has the same health as you and lifestyle then.

[Daniël Bos]

As a non-smoker, moderate drinker, non-drug using person of average weight and good health, I'd rather pay for medical insurance than have my tax money fund a liver transplant for an alcoholic.

 

Jonathan

 

I totally agree, being of good health non-smoking moderate boozing myself, my nephew however, was born 3 years ago with reitinoblastoma, a cancer of the eyes, and were it not for our taxmoney his parents would have watched him die as there is no way the accumulated riches of my entire family (wich is reasonably well off) could have saved him.

That's were the NHS comes in.

I suppose the issue is with deciding wich things are self-afflicted, ie my granddad was told by his doctor to try smoking as a preventive for tb, 40 years later the son of said doctor was his new GP and told him to stop or he'd die.

So, was he to blame for his bad lungs? There's many many examples of such cases and to make the decission of who is to blame themselves or not is near impossible to make. It could be argued that a lot of the drug-abusing, drinking, smoking scum is of such low intelligence and so badly educated they cannot be held responsable for those actions.

[Andy Collins]

If you go back 50 or 60 years, employment was much higher and we were still a manufacturing nation. I don't think that a return to that state is impossible. That said, I think the work ethic that once existed in the UK has more or less gone from the young generation. There is a culture or expectancy, that simply by having the good fortune of being born in this country, we are entitled to an easy life.

 

I disagree, employment was only higher because machinery and technology was not as efficient as today. More staff were required to produce goods. Labour was cheap, to the extent many lived in abject poverty with little chance of escaping, regardless of how hard they worked. I dont know of any of the "old boys" who would revert back to the ways of working in their youth, they acknowledge how fortunate we are today. Yes we have a safe welfare state, to catch the vulnerable, as yes it gets abused. Yes, we should have a form of National Service to give youngsters a sense of purpose, but civilian based tasks rather than military. We should look back at history, not with rose-tinted specs, but to learn from past errors to make the country better for our future.

[likeitorlumpit]

Todays News

Brent crude down to $105 per barrel

Where do they keep all the barrels?

[easy-lift guy]

Here in the States we have health insurance accounts that can be set up at the bank. In addition to health insurance or on it's own it can help over ones life time for future needs.

Most Americans I have spoke to DO NOT want the type of health care systems that exist in Europe. That being said the clown presently leasing the White House thinks everyone will want this type of system forced down the throats of everyone here in the states. My opinion, this act and others will be this persons Waterloo.