today's job "step cut 3"

[dadio]

if time is money then why didn't you just knock those tops straight out? Looks like there was enough room to me.

 

I could have bombed almsot every cut on that tree. But that would have done a lot of turf damage, and seeing as how the landscaper gave me the job, that wouldn't be a good reflection on him to his customer, so he might stop giving me work in the future based on one bad experience. And its often easier and FASTER to lower pieces whole rather than have them shatter in a million bits all over the lawm. Most pices were lowered right behind the chipper in the drive. Making a big mess on the ground can really slow things down, as the ground crew has to work so much harder to keep the LZ clear..

[Mike Hill]

I normally knock the Bark off with and Axe to save the Chain and Face cut at ground level.If your back cut is level with the Bottom of the Face cut,it reduces the negative effects of any Wavy Fibers.

 

As I understand,the "Step" between the corner of the Face Cut and the Back cut is to prevent the Tree Sliding back off the Stump should it hit another Tree as its falling?Somthing we seldom encounter in Garden Tree Work.

 

I fail to see the point in your promoting of this Technique futher than stimulating discussion.

[Xerxses]

If you were to calculate the force needed to pull this tree over you would find that you need more force due to the low backcut as you are lifting the tree and the high hinge is deflecting some of the force.

Do your forcetriangles and you'll see...

and then adding the negative force of shearing the wood of the stepcut....

This tree would have been "easy" to wedge with a couple of "lowlift" wedges and virtually impossible with your stepcut technique.

If it is a matter of safety?

Well its a lot harder to calculate when the tree is going over as you need a lot of force and the shearing is so different from tree to tree (e.g. growingpattern species and temperature) that the tree, as you reach the force needed to shear the wood, the tree is going to suddenly "pop" and fall rather quickly whereas the conventional technique allows you to wedge and apply force to the tree and if needed cut the hinge a bit more.

The tree will "tell" you (as the fibres starts breaking you will hear the cracking sound) and you will have plenty of time to move away from the tree using the safe escape route.

 

There is also a possibility to overcut the hinge as the fibers often isnt straight in the butt (as you point out in the first video) with the risk of ending up with a "true" stepcut, the tree snapping of the hinge and sit down on the stump. I have experienced this with small trees as i have made a sloppy backcut () and the tree has broken off the hinge and still stood on the stump, it isn't nice and a real wakeup call as it can fall in any direction...! They have only been really small and easy enough to push over in the desired direction. I wouldnt want this to happen to a big tree!!!!

 

Its great that people try out different techniques cause thats how our trade develops, but there is a reason why a level backcut is advised!

There has been a lot of research in this field at the Swedish Forrestry Researchcentre where they looked and trialed different kinds of felling cuts They looked at the fibrebending in the hinge as the gob were closing and found that a level backcut gives the highest bending ratios in both soft- and hardwoodfibres.

 

Stay safe and dont put your self at risk in order to "develop" new techniques, espesially newbies... wanting to do "new" cool things that werent taught in school!

[greengrafter]

Hi dadio,

 

I've been following this thread and cannot see how this saves any time! I mean come on how long does it really take to cut through a bit of wood with a big saw.....not long.

 

And would you use this method for say a 6 ft tree? coz surely it would take some serious pullling. wouldn't it?

 

It's good people are trying different things but this one isn't for me.

 

Steve

[likeitorlumpit]

this step cut idea seems to me to be a reason to utilise extra equipment to justify a high price to the customer.

The 'Oh I couldn't do that cos I haven't got a bulldozer'

For that alone- It's a great idea:biggrin:

[armchairarborist]

comedy viewing right from not letting the rigged limbs run, just run a bit and crash into the stem creating the mess you would get from felling, i understand the step cut displayed and you do it to save manual handling/extra dump fees but the dude with the yellow hat belongs in a circus, just holding the saw by the rear handle with two hands, not using the chainbrake and chipping good firewood. ok i know you were posing:thumbup:

[scotspine1]

Here's a job we did today.. Its a perfect example of why I love to use the step cut.. Its a big time and energy saver. Stump was 40"+ at the cut. Took me less than 60 seconds to finish the flush cut and run the piece through the chipper. I left the saw's audio in for that cut only, so you all can tell that the flush cut was put up in real time and unedited.

 

Even though its gonna make me sound as arrogant as ever, here the details.. 85' tulip.. up and down in the hooks, lowered everything out to protect the lawn and make clean up easier. 24 or 25 cuts roped down. I threw the customer a bone and spent almost an hour in the bucket doing a bit of pruning on the two trees in the background (locust and maple) take all the wood and grind the stump (gridings backfilled) ... $2500.. I doubt customer got other prices as his landscaper refered me, though I bid it last summer and only got the green light last week.

 

Tree was on the ground in 2:45 after I stepped on the property. Alternator on the bucket went, so I had to go back to a vehicle left at the AM job to get jumper cables, then home to pick up the stump grinder, as my neighbor had borrowed the truck that pulls it, then picked up lunch. Even with all that this job grossed right around $100/man/hour, including travel both ways and lunch.

 

Moral of the story:

$$$ talks and BS walks...

Even with a nice number on the job, the only way to make that kind of coin in this business is by operating with efficiency in all areas, from setting lines to clean up.

 

Here it is, 3:43 :

 

 

Dan,

 

you can post these vids till your blue in the face, but sooner or later your gonna have to accept that no-one is gonna adopt this technique.

 

The main reason for this is thats its totally pointless, that is to say....there is no point whatsoever in using this technique despite your childish protestations to the contrary.

 

Please stop with the self indulgent nonsense.

[dadio]

There has been a lot of research in this field at the Swedish Forrestry Researchcentre where they looked and trialed different kinds of felling cuts They looked at the fibrebending in the hinge as the gob were closing and found that a level backcut gives the highest bending ratios in both soft- and hardwoodfibres.

QUOTE]

 

I COMPLETELY AGREE and have tried to tell this to many Americans for years. The high backcut (aka stump shot) will tend to hurt control and accuracy for a number of reasons. Some Americans think you need to put 2" of stump shot on every fall. I DON'T... I like my cut level or just slightly high, no more than 1", especially on tulip. The tighter the drop zone and the more questionable the holding power of the hinge, the more importance I put on cutting a precise level backcut!

 

The exception to this rule is going to be where the tree might hang up on another tree on the way down. Otherwise I cut the backcuts very close to level. That is one of the best reasons for using the plunge cut to form the hinge. It allows precise control of the height of the backcut relative to the gob.

 

Look at the videos and you'll see I use a level back cut in most cases.. That said: the low back release is going to have zero effect on the hinge fibers as the tree moves.. the height of the back cut is set with the plunge!

 

I'd be very interested in seeing an English translation of that research.. any ideas where it can be found?

 

Thanks..

[dadio]

Dan,

 

you can post these vids till your blue in the face, but sooner or later your gonna have to accept that no-one is gonna adopt this technique.

 

The main reason for this is thats its totally pointless, that is to say....there is no point whatsoever in using this technique despite your childish protestations to the contrary.

 

Please stop with the self indulgent nonsense.

 

OK... I give up...

[Stephen Blair]

cool vid:thumbup1: