What happens when the lad has a go: part 2

[Frank]

There are no names mentioned - it is a post based on frustration.

 

Facts:

 

1. He gave me a business card with tree care on it.

2. He is a self-employed, sub-contracted tree surgeon.

3. He has passed the industry standard for chainsaw use for cross cutting, maintenance and safe use of.

4. He has worked with several tree surgeons and amassed over a years worth of experience.

5. With all of the above evidence and the fact that this lad has effectively set up his own business and is a potentional competitor to all tree surgeons in the local area, why should I not expect a simple task, such as cross cut a trunk into rounds, to be conducted in a competent manner.

 

I have not named and shamed, that is not my intention, but simply pointing out the failure in our college system and industry competency system to turn out, after a two year course, someone who can cut a log into sections.

 

No offence intended - you are right, perhaps I should not share . . .

A couple of things.

 

Firstly from the thread title and the way it was worded, I assumed he was the young lad (apprentice) on your books and I felt sorry for him.

I thought how I would feel after being given some basic training for something, then being asked to do something alot bigger and then stuffing it up resulting in an angry boss and loads of strangers laughing about me on the internet, wether I was named personally or not. I would know it was me they were ripping.

 

Second point is, now I realise he is self employed and mascarading as a "tree surgeon", I wholeheartedly agree with you as to why you felt the way you did.

 

Thirdly, this backs up my argument about NPTC's being like a provisional license allowing you to then go off and be trained / prepared for a proper test or qualification. I agree.

 

Fourthly, Please, please, please do not think you shouldnt share.

Your opinion and thoughts are as valuable as anyone elses. The fact you say you are frustrated means that you care. That can only be a good thing for this forum and the industry.

[Chris Gagen]

surely it would be better if the lad had asked to be shown if he was not sure? reflects badly on the lad for getting so far without thinking hmmm, surely this shouldn't be this difficult...

 

"Ask a question and feel a fool for a moment,never ask and be a fool all your life is way I look at it." (as quoted by Yeti in a previous thread)

 

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

 

good job it was only a nuisance outcome and not a harmful or lethal one like the BC ash a few weeks ago could have been...

[doobin]

facts cs30/ covers mainteance and cross cutting and stacking of small timber of 14/15inc.cs31/ covers felling of small trees 14/15inc.

 

so u let your lad fell a tree when he has not had proper training in the cs31 class.in cs31 u do not use wedges.

wedges are only used in cs32/33.

 

and for your lad well all i can say hats off for trying with no exp and no help from u as a boss...your lucky u got your saw back in one lump and running.

 

i think you should as a boss go back to arb college. in my view you have still got some learning to do.because this mistake was not the lads fault its yours.

 

If you'd taken the time to read the post properly, you'd see that the OP felled the tree- the lad was only instructed to cross-cut.

 

Regardless of whether the lad had had instruction in cutting timber larger than the bar, he is showing a lack of extremely basic saw control in forcing the saw through the timber. A lack of saw control that his claimed experience should have prevented.

 

All I can say is I hope you're not paying him too much.

 

As others have said though, at least he gave it a go. The acid test is whether he's the sort of lad who only needs to be shown things once. If he's not, then I'd ditch him.

Edited December 2, 2010 by doobin

[Rob D]

He may have had a years experience and it would be a worry if he did this with smaller bits of wood.... but he said this was the first 'big lump' he'd cut up.

 

The curves on the wood say to me the saw was dull, worn bar or both. And it would also explain the myriad of cuts.

 

He needs to understand why he had problems cutting the log up. Shown the correct way. Then hopefully the next time he'll get it right.

[Matthew Arnold]

Not the best reply from me i know but.... atleast he gave it a try. You learn from your mistakes. Granted he has claimed experience but he may not have cut thru timber that big before. Judging by the way the cuts curve it shows that the cutters are longer on one side than on the other. A sign of poor chain maintenance. I have done the same as this lad but i will stand up for him. Its easier said than done cutting thru a piece of timber that is twice as long as the bar sometimes longer. It is difficult to line the cuts up perfectly. Sometimes you can be on target other times you can be 6 inches or more out.

[scottythepinetree]

 

1. He gave me a business card with tree care on it.

2. He is a self-employed, sub-contracted tree surgeon.

3. He has passed the industry standard for chainsaw use for cross cutting, maintenance and safe use of.

4. He has worked with several tree surgeons and amassed over a years worth of experience.

5. With all of the above evidence and the fact that this lad has effectively set up his own business and is a potentional competitor to all tree surgeons in the local area, why should I not expect a simple task, such as cross cut a trunk into rounds, to be conducted in a competent manner.

 

 

1. Hardly relevant, though shows initiative

2. Hard to get a foot in the door these days, again shows initiative

3. As above posts, never done big stuff how would he know?

4. What work did he do for other companies. With a WHOLE year's experience behind him I would imagine mostly cutting up small branches, dragging and feeding the chipper.

5. He's hardly a competitor.

 

We all have to learn somewhere, and we all know that CS units are basically an insurance exercise so that if he cuts himself doing something stupid it's been documented that he has been told the correct way to use a chainsaw safely. It's only when you have your tickets that you start learning.

 

Can you suggest a better alternative to the way the training system works?

[Mesterh]

Tbh if you are that bothered about wasted time and fuel why not just give him a decent sized saw from the start?

 

I assume it's the same lad that nearly took his head off on the other thread.

[ad15]

facts cs30/ covers mainteance and cross cutting and stacking of small timber of 14/15inc.cs31/ covers felling of small trees 14/15inc.

 

so u let your lad fell a tree when he has not had proper training in the cs31 class.in cs31 u do not use wedges.

wedges are only used in cs32/33.

 

and for your lad well all i can say hats off for trying with no exp and no help from u as a boss...your lucky u got your saw back in one lump and running.

 

:

 

have to agree here,,, cross cutting large timber with small bars is not covered on 30/31

 

the curve "could" be a poorly sharpened/ dull saw.

 

i sat and watched an old boy that's been using saws and cutting down trees since before i was born cut round corners a few weeks back,, he actually came and asked me to sharpen his saw for him as he struggles these days,,

 

think you're being harsh..

[Highland Forestry]

There are no names mentioned - it is a post based on frustration.

 

Facts:

 

1. He gave me a business card with tree care on it.

2. He is a self-employed, sub-contracted tree surgeon.

3. He has passed the industry standard for chainsaw use for cross cutting, maintenance and safe use of.

4. He has worked with several tree surgeons and amassed over a years worth of experience.

5. With all of the above evidence and the fact that this lad has effectively set up his own business and is a potentional competitor to all tree surgeons in the local area, why should I not expect a simple task, such as cross cut a trunk into rounds, to be conducted in a competent manner.

 

I have not named and shamed, that is not my intention, but simply pointing out the failure in our college system and industry competency system to turn out, after a two year course, someone who can cut a log into sections.

 

No offence intended - you are right, perhaps I should not share . . .

 

 

Hang on a minute here...

 

He gave you a business card saying tree care... fair enough, he probably got cards made up to try and find some work. Fair play to the lad.

 

He only has CS30 - therefore he is obviously NOT a tree surgeon.. you shouldn't expect him to be!

 

He is self employed - so what?

 

Personally it looks to me like he went wrong cutting through the knotty wood in the trunk where a limb had been pruned.

 

You can't expect him to be competent based on the fact that he passed a CS30 exam - he was probably cross cutting small diameter pine with a straight grain and no compression and tension on his assessment.

 

He has amassed a years worth of experience - doing what? Grounding for tree surgery companies... big deal.

 

Give the lad a break - everyone has to start somewhere.

 

If you were that concerned with wasted time, fuel, wear and tear etc you should have stood there watching him and teaching him how you wanted him to do it.

 

Further than that, the CS30 qualification generally only teaches a candidate how to cross cut timber up to guide bar length. Larger than guide bar length is taught on the CS32.

 

I don't see that he went that wrong IMO - he just needs some guidance!

[ad15]

FWIW max guide bar length for CS30 is 15 inches..