Got an idea for kiln drying logs. Any feedback appreciated.

[gensetsteve]

Gensetsteve - when you say £75 per ton........is the price your selling a ton at, processed, seasoned, delivered? As it goes for way more than that around here. Unless I've misunderstood.

 

Sorry I was not very clear its the price of a tonne of green beech cord wood delivered in. 5 years ago we were paying £24 + Vat. Last autumn £42 now have price of £52 by next winter i am sure they will put another £10 on it £62 + vat = £74.40.

We sell logs by the cubic metre loose loaded and 1tonne of green beech turns into 1.5 cubic metres.

 

I am putting a large crane trailer on the road in the next few months so we can get the timber in when we need it.

[Rob D]

I know this thread is a couple of months old but thought i'd put my input.

 

I'm just starting out in the firewood business......mostly as i'm sick of cowboys selling wet wood as seasoned. Also we have a stove shop and installation service and get called out many times a year due to stoves not working properly. Every time it's down to wet wood. Also the only local guy who does sell seasoned wood is so ungrateful for the work (i give him about 350 new customers a year and he does nothing but moan) and he wont take on any more new customers so i really have no option but to do it myself and take them all back. I have around 4000 customers who we've installed stoves for over the years so it should be an instant business if i just give them a call/drop them a letter.

 

Now obviously i'm lacking experience but i've done a lot of research and asked a lot of questions to people in the trade......obviously there will be mistakes made but that's life.

 

Anyways........to start with we're going to cut and split a load of wood and dispense into ventilated bulk sacks...........i want to be able to start selling some wood pretty quickly so i can get some money coming back in to buy the next load of wood.........I have a 45 foot insulated (ex refrigeration trailer). I plan on fitting a workshop stove at the far end which will burn all the rubbish and sawdust from processing the timber. I plan on installing several air vents at the far end near the wood burner and then at the other end of the trailer i'm going to install several bathroom extractor fans......these are very low power consumption but if i install enough it should help distribute the heat around the trailer and also circulate air through the trailer and dry the wood.

 

Anyone got any idea how long the wood will take to dry if i can maintain the trailer at around 35 degrees C?

 

Once the trailer is full i plan on filling up our barns and leaving that to season naturally for next year.......once i get a year in front then i'll stop using the trailer to artificially dry it.....it's just so i can get selling some this year.

 

That's the plan anyway.......anyone see any reasons why it shouldn't work?

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

 

A few points:

 

You won't get any money back quickly selling logs. In fact it has to be one of the biggest cash flow blockers there is.

 

You need a regular source of timber and then all the equipment to load it, split it (could do this by hand to start), store it and deliver it.

 

Using vented bags on pallets in a polytunnel IMO is the best way to dry wood. Cheap, energy efficient, can be whipped out and delivered dry. But if you have barns then these would do if the ventilation is good. Stack on pallets.

 

Another IMO forget about the trailer idea - that will be too much work hassal and money for the return. Just split in advance and mother nature will dry the wood for free.

 

Work out all your costs and then what you will charge for the wood.

 

I'd say you have a good advantage over competition in that you have a ready market that you can show your dry logs - and therefore charge more for.

[Fahrenheit]

Yeah i feel we can get top money for the logs. My plan for drying them artificially is so that i can contact some customers......sell the wood and then i'm able to approach the bank with some figures.....ie......if i contact 200 customers and manage to shift 30 ton of wood within a short period of time then it should enable me to approach the bank with some promising figures and will give them idea of what kind of amounts we can shift if we approach all 4000 customers. I'd then like to borrow money to buy a processor, rent more space, buy in stock to season........etc.

 

Drying it artificially isn't a long term plan at all.....it's only to get up and running so we can finance the business and scale things up so we have enough wood to season it naturally in the barns.

 

I'll have fork lifts, tipper trucks............etc...... we will hire in a processor initially until we get finance to purchase our own and i've proven the business will work.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Fahrenheit

[gensetsteve]

I dont think you will sell much between now and October then you will sell 30 tonne a week. Get 300 tonnes done through a used processor for £3000 now or more if you can spare the money and cash flow. 30 tonnes will be a drop in the ocean with the amount of contacts u say u have.

[Justme]

Buy in some ready to sell logs that meet your standards. Then you wont need to set up the temp dryer before getting the figures. Or just make some up (IE do a business plan its the same thing) & approach the bank with that.

 

Or you could even do the marketing before you buy them in (If you can find anyone with good dry stock to sell you).

[philg]

Yeah i feel we can get top money for the logs. My plan for drying them artificially is so that i can contact some customers......sell the wood and then i'm able to approach the bank with some figures.....ie......if i contact 200 customers and manage to shift 30 ton of wood within a short period of time then it should enable me to approach the bank with some promising figures and will give them idea of what kind of amounts we can shift if we approach all 4000 customers. I'd then like to borrow money to buy a processor, rent more space, buy in stock to season........etc.

 

Drying it artificially isn't a long term plan at all.....it's only to get up and running so we can finance the business and scale things up so we have enough wood to season it naturally in the barns.

 

I'll have fork lifts, tipper trucks............etc...... we will hire in a processor initially until we get finance to purchase our own and i've proven the business will work.

4000 customers:thumbup1: do you have any idea at all of the sort of volume of timber you would need to stock:confused1: Now if you need to borrow money to get a processor i would start very realistically and start off very small and forget the magic 4000 customers for a while. Just say that each customer takes 4 loads a year roughly 2-2.5 tonne thats works out at 8-10 thousand tonnes of seasoned logs(thats alot and a very large barn to store them in). At the average of 4 loads per customer per season thats 16,000 deliveries to make many in the winter months when you have very limited working daylight hours:001_rolleyes: best of look in your venture

Thanks Phil.

[scbk]

What about briquettes to get you up an running?

All you have to do is buy them in, sell them on straight away. No seasoning, storage, cutting, splitting, noise, waste, etc

[philg]

Sorry forgot to add lets say the bulk of deliveries will be in 200 days through the winter that works out at roughly 80 deliveries a day.... that will be some big logistical setup you say you've done lots of research so i presume you've already looked at this nothing wrong with that i just wouldn't want that hanging around my neck, It'll be one big setup and I for one wish you all the best and would love to see it happen but i dont think it will in all reallity.

[Fahrenheit]

Thanks for your concern.....i'm obviously not going to approach all 4000 customers to start with......more like couple of hundred. I don't want everyone to be phoning me for wood and then not be able to meet demand as this would bad for business.

 

Most of my work is word of mouth.....i don't advertise....once i tell a few customers word will get around naturally.

 

I understand that it is getting to the end of the season but people are so desperate around here for dry wood i'm sure i could shift plenty over the summer.....i'll offer a discount if bought in the summer months.

 

A huge chunk of our business is chimney sweeping.....this used to be dead in summer and crazy in winter.......we offered £5 off in summer and now all of our customers get their chimneys swept in the summer......i'm sure i can do the same with firewood.

 

It doesn't seem that much work to be honest............buy softwood and hardwood in at £35 - £55 a ton. A ton of wood should do at least 2 cubic metres........sells at £120 per cube.........thats £240.....less the original cost of the wood leaves around £200 before wages and fuel. Get a guy with a processor in.......dispense the firewood straight into ventilated sacks......stack one sack on top of another.....fork lift it into the kiln.....leave it for 2-3 weeks to dry.......fork lift it back out, put on a tipper and send to the customer. The kiln will run on the crap produced from processing the wood.

 

I'n the meantime get another 100 ton or so seasoning for next year and then build up the stock as demand increases.

 

Or am i missing something huge?

 

I'm not keen on the briquettes........they look a bit naff and my customers want wood. I used to sell briquettes but i didn't like them. Also less money to be made from them.

[firewood]

"It doesn't seem that much work to be honest............buy softwood and hardwood in at £35 - £55 a ton. A ton of wood should do at least 2 cubic metres........sells at £120 per cube.........thats £240""

 

 

you have just answered your own question.

 

 

You may have the driest firewood in town but at £120 per cube many customers will carry on buying cheaper wet wood.

 

be careful about whether you can sell softwoods in your area. from reading this forum i would suggest that softwood is only popular in parts of Wales and Scotland (others may shed more light on this). Softwood prices to the customer will be around half that of hardwood.

 

Also, 1 ton of green hardwood will just about make 1.5m3 of split logs not 2m3. i.e. 25% less than you are estimating.

 

 

making and selling firewood is very hard work. do not underestimate the effort and hassle involved. you have to be a cutter, labourer, mechanic, driver, salesman and entrepreneur all rolled into one. IMO unless you are shifting 500 tons plus p.a. you will not be able to employ anyone and still make a profit so you will be doing all the work at least to start with.

 

 

Your biggest asset is your marketing database. If i were you, I would put out a call here on arbtalk and find two or three members from your area who can supply to you or your customers direct and take a commission off each sale. profit guaranteed!

 

my 2p worth.