Welcome back to the EU!

[Big J]

4 minutes ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

 OK, so why is he crapping on or moaning on a UK forum then? About UK political scene, surely if Europe's so great why are they behaving like they need the UK? and thank you for the correction

 

Because I am British, and I would like to see the country prosper. Most of my family and friends still reside there.

 

The difficulty, and indeed the conflict between democracy and bureaucracy is that elected officials often (usually) have no experience in the field in which they are appointed to work. Take government ministers as an example. They are given a brief, which they may hold for a period of weeks, months or years, but often they are being asked to be responsible for an entire department with no prior expertise.

 

Consequently, they are reliant on their civil servants (or 'unelected bureaucrats' as the right wing like to refer to them as) to provide the guidance necessary for them to be effective in their role.

 

This structure is indeed how the EU has functioned. Not substantively different to that of Whitehall, albeit on a larger scale.

 

It is not possibly to have all public roles directly elected and directly answerable to the public. It would be chaos and nothing productive would ever occur.

 

Yes, the EU has economic problems. So does the UK. Collectively, we are stronger together and hopefully a degree of reintegration will illustrate this.

[Tree monkey 1682]

4 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Because I am British, and I would like to see the country prosper. Most of my family and friends still reside there.

 

The difficulty, and indeed the conflict between democracy and bureaucracy is that elected officials often (usually) have no experience in the field in which they are appointed to work. Take government ministers as an example. They are given a brief, which they may hold for a period of weeks, months or years, but often they are being asked to be responsible for an entire department with no prior expertise.

 

Consequently, they are reliant on their civil servants (or 'unelected bureaucrats' as the right wing like to refer to them as) to provide the guidance necessary for them to be effective in their role.

 

This structure is indeed how the EU has functioned. Not substantively different to that of Whitehall, albeit on a larger scale.

 

It is not possibly to have all public roles directly elected and directly answerable to the public. It would be chaos and nothing productive would ever occur.

 

Yes, the EU has economic problems. So does the UK. Collectively, we are stronger together and hopefully a degree of reintegration will illustrate this.

Thank you for mildy clarifying some things, 

I still feel that the freedom of movement isn't great at this time, I mean being serious look at the terrorist issues that German has had recently... Surely an open border policy hasn't helped that? 

Things need to change radically in this country  (UK) and it will only happen if someone from outside does it, nothing will happen with Labour conservatives, Green or lib dem... 

Me I'd love the challenge of turning the country around, but the people who voted Labour, the anti vaxers, the people who want to stay in Europe, people on benefits who could work, the people claiming asylum, pride and I'm sure I've missed other people off wouldn't like me 😂. 

I'd also say yes Scotland and Wales by all means you can have your country back but no funding from Westminster.. 

I could go on... I mean thes enough people in our country of working age that don't want to work, so we wouldn't need people from the EU. 

I don't mind people coming here as long as you fit in, pay tax and integrate... 

But I can't stand double standards, hypocrisy, wokeness 

[tree-fancier123]

So back when the steam engine was invented Britain wasn't in the EU and yet it's economy was doing better than most.

If only they'd known how much better things would be if all the nearby countries were to coagulate as one big glob.

All the African countries could become one gorious loving enterprise covering the whole continent

[sime42]

@Tree monkey 1682

 

You'll need to draw up a Venn Diagram for that list of people who wouldn't like you! They won't all fit neatly in one circle, it'd be messy. 

 

There's very much anti-Labour anti-vaxers, very much unwoke work capable Daily Mail reading benefit bums (of the indigenous variety), and very much unpride asylum seekers, etc etc. Messy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by sime42

[Squaredy]

59 minutes ago, Big J said:

It would be chaos and nothing productive would ever occur.

Mmmm now that sounds very familiar......!

[Tree monkey 1682]

19 minutes ago, sime42 said:

@Tree monkey 1682

 

You'll need to draw up a Venn Diagram for that list of people who wouldn't like you! They won't all fit neatly in one circle, it'd be messy. 

 

There's very much anti-Labour anti-vaxers, very much unwoke work capable Daily Mail reading benefit bums (of the indigenous variety), and very much unpride asylum seekers, etc etc. Messy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point being that the are a certain group of people that do not want the UK to be good, ok look at the amount junkies we have in this country that never contribute or never have and yet they drain money out of the government.. 

Make people earn their benefits, so when work does come up they can do it and they are contributing. 

But how ever you look at it, the UK can't go on like it is... Wether that's the fault of the EU with our industries moving abroad or crappy attitudes thinking "we're to good for that job" can't go on... 

Thing like the NHS is broke, we give so much money abroad, yet our own house isnt in order, we have this stupid net zero policy that's not helping anything, yet China India and America pollute more than us. 

Yes it can be turned around but the needs to be a serious shift in attitude. 

[Johnsond]

23 minutes ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

My point being that the are a certain group of people that do not want the UK to be good, ok look at the amount junkies we have in this country that never contribute or never have and yet they drain money out of the government.. 

Make people earn their benefits, so when work does come up they can do it and they are contributing. 

But how ever you look at it, the UK can't go on like it is... Wether that's the fault of the EU with our industries moving abroad or crappy attitudes thinking "we're to good for that job" can't go on... 

Thing like the NHS is broke, we give so much money abroad, yet our own house isnt in order, we have this stupid net zero policy that's not helping anything, yet China India and America pollute more than us. 

Yes it can be turned around but the needs to be a serious shift in attitude. 

Far too much common sense to go down well on here. 

[sime42]

46 minutes ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

My point being that the are a certain group of people that do not want the UK to be good, ok look at the amount junkies we have in this country that never contribute or never have and yet they drain money out of the government.. 

Make people earn their benefits, so when work does come up they can do it and they are contributing. 

But how ever you look at it, the UK can't go on like it is... Wether that's the fault of the EU with our industries moving abroad or crappy attitudes thinking "we're to good for that job" can't go on... 

Thing like the NHS is broke, we give so much money abroad, yet our own house isnt in order, we have this stupid net zero policy that's not helping anything, yet China India and America pollute more than us. 

Yes it can be turned around but the needs to be a serious shift in attitude. 

 

 

Yep, agree with a lot of that. The UK is pretty ****************ed right now, whichever way you look at it. I don't believe much of that is the fault of the EU though, it's far more to do with our very own home grown attitudes. Be that of our politicians or swathes of their electors. Not forgetting of course the unelected ultra rich individuals, (the traditional media, social media and big tech types), who have a large amount of influence behind the scenes. If we were to be part of a bigger block, the EU for instance, we would at least have more power to resist their insidious efforts to hold sway over an ever increasing portion of all our lives.

 

Make people earn their benefits - absolutely. Far too many Great British multi-generational families of benefit bums. Except that many are now too ill to actually work. For that we can blame successive governments for failing to stand up to the huge multinational food and drink corporations forcing crap down people's throats. Fix that and we'd go a long way to fixing the NHS as well. It's all connected.

 

I forgot junkies. Taking that to be drug abusers. Drug abuse is generally accepted as being a symptom of inequality and lack of aspiration in society. I've not checked but I expect that we in the UK have one of the highest rates of drug abuse in Europe, so that's not going to get any worse if we rejoin the EU either.

 

It's all common sense when you sit down and think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by sime42

[Tree monkey 1682]

8 minutes ago, sime42 said:

 

 

Yep, agree with a lot of that. The UK is pretty ****************ed right now, whichever way you look at it. I don't believe much of that is the fault of the EU though, it's far more to do with our very own home grown attitudes. Be that of our politicians or swathes of their electors. Not forgetting of course the unelected ultra rich individuals, (the traditional media, social media and big tech types), who have a large amount of influence behind the scenes. If we were to be part of a bigger block, the EU for instance, we would at least have more power to resist their insidious efforts to hold sway over an ever increasing portion of all our lives.

 

Make people earn their benefits - absolutely. Far too many Great British multi-generational families of benefit bums. Except that many are now too ill to actually work. For that we can blame successive governments for failing to stand up to the huge multinational food and drink corporations forcing crap down people's throats. Fix that and we'd go a long way to fixing the NHS as well. It's all connected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I don't know about the bigger block thing, I mean Norway has its deal with eu and seems to do quite well out of it, even if norways 2nd biggest fishing port looked small compared to Brixham.. Tiny to be honest.... 

Regarding the EU I can't helping thinking, we've lost massey furgeson  out of Coventry, Ford tractors, but can't remember why they moved abroad as I was a child then. 

But I did see cadburys moving abroad with a grant from the EU, bang that's numerous people out of work, thinking of the other factories that were given grants before brexit to move abroad...  Then thes the legal crap from the EU as well🙄

As goes for food, again ever immigrant brought their own dish over here, and it's not for government to police, how ever unless u have a medical condition, you should not be over weight. What I do think should of happend is we don't have aspartame in every drink, sugar would have been better rather than us healthy people paying the price for fatties!. 

Think in sweden coca cola has no phosphoric acid in, and yes it did taste better for it! 

[sime42]

Call that a fishing harbour Norway?! And Brixham is tiny in comparison to Newlyn.

 

Cadbury moving to Europe is due to the company being taken over by Kraft and then Mondelez. Both big American/international food and drink companies. They and others like them are responsible for the disastrous food landscape in this country. Nothing to do with EU, or immigrants. Their food is generally far healthier, (and tastier) than ours. I say ours, but what is British food these days? It's KFC, pizza, Subway or any of the other crap pushed out by the likes of Uber or Just Eat. We've lost our traditional fayre, but not due to immigrants.

 

Aspartame, yeah it's the devil's nectar. Ban it henceforth