Training contracts - has anyone ever tried recouping costs from training a staff member that has left?

[Clutchy]

12 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Well how are you going to claim if you don't small claims courts ?.

 

It's not of counter claim, it's a case of the judge ruling in their favour.

Wut??

 

That's not how it works. Or I'm not understanding what you're saying. 

 

Claiment (me) sues for £2k training costs 

 

Defendant (employee) puts their defense forward. 

 

If I win = £2k plus approx £90 court fees 

 

If I lose = nothing happens, the claim is dismissed, I lost out on the £90 

 

Nothing really to lose and a small price to pay to worry them and inconvenience them. 

 

They would have to be the biggest A hole for me to do this I am actually a very nice employer I swear 😂

 

Edit: 

 

I think I know what you meant now, if I wasn't confident that I could deduct from their final pay - I would take them to court in which place if I lost there is nothing they can do to me and it's no public either. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Clutchy

[GarethM]

5 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

Wut??

 

That's not how it works. Or I'm not understanding what you're saying. 

 

Claimant (me) sues for £2k training costs 

 

Defendant (employee) puts their defense forward. 

 

If I win = £2k plus approx £90 court fees 

 

If I lose = nothing happens, the claim is dismissed, I lost out on the £90 

 

Nothing really to lose and a small price to pay to worry them and inconvenience them. 

 

They would have to be the biggest A hole for me to do this I am actually a very nice employer I swear 😂

I'm saying exactly what you've said.

 

But if you were coming for 2K from me, you can guarantee even the most dumb dumb arse is going to get a solicitor to take apart you're agreement and then sob story in the local rag.

 

There was a case not so long ago with an apprenticeship.

 

Farming apprentice wins case against JCB dealer - Farmers Weekly

WWW.FWI.CO.UK

---

A father’s determination to protect his son’s employment rights has led to a court victory that could lead to tighter controls...

 

 

I'd be more worried about these days one rights personally.

[Clutchy]

12 minutes ago, GarethM said:

But if you were coming for 2K from me, you can guarantee even the most dumb dumb arse is going to get a solicitor to take apart you're agreement and then sob story in the local rag.

 

Perfect that's mission accomplished, you've just wasted money on a solicitor that you can't claim back (you cannot claim legal costs in small claims). 

 

Local newspaper: 

 

"Local Tree surgery firm asks to be paid back partial training costs as agreed by employee breaching their contract, who left after being trained"

 

Oh no what will the world think of me and my little business I'm hardly JCB 😂

 

Again just to be clear, I would only be this spiteful if it were really bad terms it was left on. 

 

 

Also, your example is of a clearly unfair and unreasonable contract signed by a 16 year old. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Clutchy

[5thelement]

6 hours ago, Clutchy said:

What are they going to counter claim for? 

 

Or do you mean them start a claim against me for deducting wages? Yeah guess that's a risk but I'm pretty confident and for the sums involved no win no fee aren't going to bother and most tree surgeons don't know how the small claims process works so I'll be ite 

Okay, Devils advocate again here. 
You have paid for a few courses, I decide I don’t like working for you and leave on bad terms, you sue me, I say I am not paying and I left because you have been touching me up and I won’t pay a sex pest. 
Mud sticks, still worth the small claims?

[5thelement]

I am also struggling as to why modern Arb firms are spending thousands on training and lost work days. 
I paid my own way through my RFS, left college in ‘96, started working for a small family run business. No one on the books had ever been on a training course, yet they managed to teach me more than anything I learned at college, how is this possible?
I have taught young ones on the job to gain their tickets for twenty years before becoming an instructor, how is this possible?
If you are too busy to train your staff in house, your either crap at business and chasing profit or raking it in, if it is the latter you can afford to cough up for the training and time off. 
I can’t understand why an experienced climber can’t mentor a climber/cutter on a slow day, you are only teaching the very basic principles, the assessment schedules are all on line, if you haven’t got the ability/knowledge to do this then you need to go on a refresher yourself, or question why you are even in this  industry if your skill/knowledge level is so low.

[William Clifford]

Re the training in - house, it's good to explain what's happening and why, the theory etc, but to hand someone a saw or put them up a tree they need the qualification already. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking to insurance at the moment to try to get the ok to be able to give someone a saw, but it effectively makes me a trainer, I don't think the standard policy covers that. Otherwise people could just be having anyone use a saw / feed a chipper etc, but as Joe pointed out earlier, there's enough regs to mean that can't happen and there's an obligation for the employer to make sure staff are adequately trained, equipped and competent for any task they are required to do. 

[GarethM]

2 minutes ago, William Clifford said:

Re the training in - house, it's good to explain what's happening and why, the theory etc, but to hand someone a saw or put them up a tree they need the qualification already. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking to insurance at the moment to try to get the ok to be able to give someone a saw, but it effectively makes me a trainer, I don't think the standard policy covers that. Otherwise people could just be having anyone use a saw / feed a chipper etc, but as Joe pointed out earlier, there's enough regs to mean that can't happen and there's an obligation for the employer to make sure staff are adequately trained, equipped and competent for any task they are required to do. 

Your talking about a basic cs30 tho at what £500 and even then you'll have needed to teach them to respect the thing/know how it works and maintain it beforehand.

 

You're not throwing them up a 150ft tree over a greenhouse and expecting them to crack on.

[5thelement]

36 minutes ago, William Clifford said:

Re the training in - house, it's good to explain what's happening and why, the theory etc, but to hand someone a saw or put them up a tree they need the qualification already. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking to insurance at the moment to try to get the ok to be able to give someone a saw, but it effectively makes me a trainer, I don't think the standard policy covers that. Otherwise people could just be having anyone use a saw / feed a chipper etc, but as Joe pointed out earlier, there's enough regs to mean that can't happen and there's an obligation for the employer to make sure staff are adequately trained, equipped and competent for any task they are required to do. 

Who says you have to have qualifications to climb and use a saw?

The law states that an employer has to ‘adequately train’ staff for any given task you ask them to do for you.

The best way to prove this is to use a regulated training organisation like Lantra, but it is NOT compulsory, I could be the best tree surgeon in the County and train my guys impeccably, then just put them on the assessment so they are good for the insurance. 

I’m sure Gareth can train me how to drive a tractor without him being a trainer?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by 5thelement

[woody paul]

6 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

Who says you have to have qualifications to climb and use a saw?

The law states that an employer has to ‘adequately train’ staff for any given task you ask them to do for you.

The best way to prove this is to use a regulated training organisation like Lantra, but it is NOT compulsory, I could be the best tree surgeon in the County and train my guys impeccably, then just put them on the assessment so they are good for the insurance. 

I’m sure Gareth can train me how to drive a tractor without him being a trainer?

 

Worked with lads that have done all the collage and tickets, showed most of them how to do things easier and better. 

Even when I did a ticket years ago told the instructor how to do one part easier. 

[AHPP]

1 hour ago, William Clifford said:

Re the training in - house, it's good to explain what's happening and why, the theory etc, but to hand someone a saw or put them up a tree they need the qualification already. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking to insurance at the moment to try to get the ok to be able to give someone a saw, but it effectively makes me a trainer, I don't think the standard policy covers that. Otherwise people could just be having anyone use a saw / feed a chipper etc, but as Joe pointed out earlier, there's enough regs to mean that can't happen and there's an obligation for the employer to make sure staff are adequately trained, equipped and competent for any task they are required to do. 

 

There’s no requirement for paper qualification full stop but there’s also a particular bit somewhere in the ticketing industry bumf for trainees working under direct supervision.