Training contracts - has anyone ever tried recouping costs from training a staff member that has left?

[AHPP]

6 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

You'd normally use the restraint of trade argument to counter a non-compete clause rather than this type of case. 

 

First thing I'd try would be to argue that the recouping of training costs took the employee below NMW in a given period. 

 

I'd invented some tenuous way to apply it here but it's gone as quickly as it arrived. Have you got a legal background or do you just know a bit?

[Retired Climber]

25 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

I'd invented some tenuous way to apply it here but it's gone as quickly as it arrived. Have you got a legal background or do you just know a bit?

Take my posts as the well intentioned ramblings of someone with an interest in the field. I'm not a lawyer. 

[GarethM]

Such contracts didn't work particularly well for Amey, they tried that with a lot of gas/electric meter installers before COVID, and it went down like a lead balloon and they lost a lot of cases in the small claims courts.

 

Your better off saying 6 months and you'll do your basic ticket, or see if there is a college route and take the hit for one day a week etc.

 

Better to make friends employee wise than them running off and setting up against you in the local area.

 

Plus non compete were made illegal decades back, unless you're selling a business from vague conversations.

Edited Monday at 22:05 by GarethM

[Steven P]

Gradual training maybe. Don't throw thousands at a new employee in the first week they join - do the ones to get them on site safely grafting, get that mostly paid off then throw in a chainsaw ticket, get that paid off and so on... the career minded will see regular training and hang about if they can see the next tickets coming along in a month or so. You'll soon know if they are only there to take you for a ride.

 

After that keeping them is old fashioned loyalty - your personality and how you treat them. Buy a bacon bun  'thanks' after a tricky week with an earlier dart if possible, it is worth it's weight in gold

[Clutchy]

Once they've done a month I start sending them on courses. 

 

Small stuff like first aid, chipper etc I just write off. 

 

Climbing, saws etc it's written into their contract and MORE importantly, I ask them before sending the bespoke training agreement for that course - if they're happy with said agreement. 

 

Agreement is that they pay it back if they leave within 24 months (I also add wages lost for the say 6 days they are off, to make the value larger). 

 

I then write into the agreement that the balance reduces by 1/24th for every month worked. Plus a few other conditions such as if you're fired and so on. 

 

The main reason to do this isn't whether it's enforceable or not, but most employees genuinely think they are tied in for 2 years when realistically they could easily pay it and leave. 

 

I will say all of my guys are here by choice I know I'm coming off as a tosser here. 

 

You absolutely can write into the contract and training agreement (which they must agree to) that any deductions can be removed from their final salary payment. I have had this confirmed and documents checked over by our HR consultant. Is it worth the battle? No, the last climber that left had £400 balance left. He swapped it for the 3 days holiday in owed him and called it quits. 

 

He comes back and subs to this day (is a barber 5 days a week lol) 

[AHPP]

15 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

The main reason to do this isn't whether it's enforceable or not, but most employees genuinely think they are tied in for 2 years when realistically they could easily pay it and leave.

 

Or not pay it and leave.

[Clutchy]

1 minute ago, AHPP said:

 

Or not pay it and leave.

Sure, but for the 10 minutes it will take my admin to do it, I'll enforce the debt if they have left on bad terms. 

 

Whether I win or not I will annoy them or ruin their credit rating. 

[GarethM]

2 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

Whether I win or not I will annoy them or ruin their credit rating. 

Or yours, if the judge makes an example as such judgements also get publicity.

[Clutchy]

Just now, GarethM said:

Or yours, if the judge makes an example as such judgements also get publicity.

What are they going to counter claim for? 

 

Or do you mean them start a claim against me for deducting wages? Yeah guess that's a risk but I'm pretty confident and for the sums involved no win no fee aren't going to bother and most tree surgeons don't know how the small claims process works so I'll be ite 

Edited 16 hours ago by Clutchy

[GarethM]

Well how are you going to claim if you don't do it through the small claims courts ?.

 

It's not necessarily a counter claim, it's a case of the judge ruling in their favour.

 

A vaguely legal letter wouldn't make me settle, if anything it would make me even more likely to fight it.

Edited 16 hours ago by GarethM