Pricing standing Ash some with Ash die back.

[slack ma girdle]

9 hours ago, swinny said:

I will maybe try this from now on. You just measure height and length x2.5m to get volume or is there a more precise way? 

 

Still feel a little diddled

I work on averages. I know the average tree volume,  and i know the average number of cut logs per tree. I also measure mid diameter of logs on the stack to work out average log volume,  and count the number of logs in the stack, and times number by volume .

It sounds alot but it doesn't take long, and gives you a sound footing when arguing the toss with miserly firewood buyers.

[doobin]

11 hours ago, swinny said:

Cheers. How is it then priced per cube? Rough estimates... 

 

If you take that figure  and work it to metre cube.... if you then divide by 1.5 should this give you rough tonnage? As sure firewood boys reckon 1.5 cube per ton?

Sure it's only 1.5m3 per ton? I always thought it was more.

 

If 1.5m3 sells for average say £180 (£120/m) then margins are wafer thin / non existant with it costing £100 per ton minium delivered in.

[Whoppa Choppa]

7 minutes ago, doobin said:

Sure it's only 1.5m3 per ton? I always thought it was more.

 

If 1.5m3 sells for average say £180 (£120/m) then margins are wafer thin / non existant with it costing £100 per ton minium delivered in.

Kiln RHI makes up the difference. Ridiculous.

[Mark Bolam]

I think what skews it as well is everyone thinking a ‘tonne bag’ is 1m3.

 

Yes, I know they exist and yes, I know bags stretch, but most bags are 0.8mx0.8mx0.8m, which is 0.512m3 level.

Most sellers round here says it’s 0.8m3 though!

 

I’d say 1.5m3/tonne probably isn’t too far out.

 

I’m extremely glad I don’t buy in!

[cessna]

Many thanks for all for taking the time to reply.

[Hank]

On 10/12/2024 at 20:38, Amarus said:

Without knowing which part of the country you are in, it is hard to answer.

 

In the SW I would say around the £50/t mark is about right for the top end as the others say but a lot depends on site conditions and tree sizes etc. If it is not as straightforward and/or a small area with lot of constraints etc., you might not get much more than £20-25/t or even less.

 

The thing that concerns me is the no harvester element, effectively the owners ask the cutters to risk their lives for what exactly?

I would not entertain looking at ash trees without mechanised felling and rather walk, to be honest. Ash trees do kill people.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying all ash felling should be done via mechanised means? Is there more info on ash trees killing people? Genuine questions, just want to be in the know!

[Stubby]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying all ash felling should be done via mechanised means? Is there more info on ash trees killing people? Genuine questions, just want to be in the know!

Hand felling ash with a certain degree of chalara can be dodgy . Banging wedges in for instance can bring brittle branches down on the cutter . Hinges can let go before they have steered the tree etc etc .

[slack ma girdle]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

Hand felling ash with a certain degree of chalara can be dodgy . Banging wedges in for instance can bring brittle branches down on the cutter . Hinges can let go before they have steered the tree etc etc .

We have had more issues with branches 'pinged ' back at you from the surrounding trees as the felled tree falls through the canopy.

 

[Amarus]

13 hours ago, slack ma girdle said:

We have had more issues with branches 'pinged ' back at you from the surrounding trees as the felled tree falls through the canopy.

 

 

22 hours ago, Hank said:

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying all ash felling should be done via mechanised means? Is there more info on ash trees killing people? Genuine questions, just want to be in the know!

Yes, I am, and most of the industry are saying hand felling of ash should be the absolute last resort and not the default approach. See any of guidance from FISA, FCA & Arb Association. 

 

While HSE does not provide statistic in relation to accidents caused by ash specifically there has been a marked increase in fatalities in the last 5-8 years where ash played a part. I am sure this could be proven (or disproven) if one would have the time to dig through these reports.

 

Coupled by the fact around 80% of RIDDOR accidents happen within 2m of the tree being worked on due to the shower of branches as the others already pointed it out.

 

Before anyone claims they are happy to fell ash that seems to have a healthy crown, the Austrians did several (somewhere over 100) pulling tests on their ash trees around 8-10 years ago having been blessed with dieback for quite some time (certainly longer than the UK at that point) and concluded that there is no correlation between tree/stem/fibre stability and crown retention. 

 

Everybody is free to choose their own way of dealing with this; under my watch there is not going to be a chainsaw anywhere near an ash tree unless there is no other way.

[slack ma girdle]

9 hours ago, Amarus said:

 

Yes, I am, and most of the industry are saying hand felling of ash should be the absolute last resort and not the default approach. See any of guidance from FISA, FCA & Arb Association. 

 

While HSE does not provide statistic in relation to accidents caused by ash specifically there has been a marked increase in fatalities in the last 5-8 years where ash played a part. I am sure this could be proven (or disproven) if one would have the time to dig through these reports.

Everybody is free to choose their own way of dealing with this; under my watch there is not going to be a chainsaw anywhere near an ash tree unless there is no other way.

This the main issue, that nobody has any hard facts to make an informed judgement, and one that i have repeatedly brought up with the couple of working groups that i belong to.

What has made a big difference to felling ash safely,  is bluetooth comms. One felling and one or two watching for trouble as the tree goes over.