Areal rescue

[skyhuck]

Just wondering if anyone knew why we need to have a rescue climber?

 

Dont say its to rescue if a climber gets injured.

 

I am comparing it to say a truck driver who does need a passenger in case he falls asleep and cause's a pile up.

 

.

 

The haulage industry is very well represented by its trade body's, who lobby the government and stop restrictive legislation from stopping them for making a living.

 

We have the AA who say "Oh thats a good idea, then our AAAC can do it and it will squeeze a few more or the little guys out of the market"

 

It doesn't help that the powers that be ask the training providers whats best, there hardly going to say "no we don't need another ticket to teach, were run off our feet as it is, more work is the last thing we need!":sneaky2:

[Czlowiek Drzewo]

don't practice rescue techs . haven't done for a while now..but i should though.

 

Too busy trying to earn a living.

[Tommy_B]

Sorry if this is derailing too much, Monkey D, Could you stick some pictures up of how you were using that ropeguide in the pole rescue from page 1 please? Either in this thread or another one if thats ok. Looks quite interesting and I can't seem to get my head round it!! It looks like both guys are clipped into it.

 

Cheers.

 

Tom

[Albedo]

Wrote this earlier then had to whiz out for a bit, but it agrees with what skyhuck just posted.

 

I would like to see a list of the actual £ cost of all this H&S stuff, especially from the AA who seem more concerned with our H&S and form filling than the quality of our tree work. (not an attack Paul, I also welcome you and the AA, but want to make a point here)

 

Whilst recognising that you can't buy back someone's life, once lost due to ignoring H&S.

 

Hows about putting a cost on:

 

Groundie ticketed all the way to aerial rescue.

Spare climbing Kit etc

 

Then how do we decide whether to spend that, or buy basic equipment, in order to be able to do the job and put food on the table. The net result of compliance with all these regs seems to be a contributing factor, (from other threads) to a lot of people struggling to make a profit.

 

I know my decission, and I don't care if it breaks laws (some of which I regard as political correctness gone mad).

 

My decission applies to my own safety only, where someone else becomes involved, I know that I have a responsibility to travel a fair bit further down the H & S road.

 

Even the NHS is not a bottomless pit of money, it makes decissions on the cost effectiveness of a given life saving machine etc. So we can't just say - what price on a life? this side of H&S compliance needs to be addressed I think.

[skyhuck]

Wrote this earlier then had to whiz out for a bit, but it agrees with what skyhuck just posted.

 

I would like to see a list of the actual £ cost of all this H&S stuff, especially from the AA who seem more concerned with our H&S and form filling than the quality of our tree work. (not an attack Paul, I also welcome you and the AA, but want to make a point here)

 

Whilst recognising that you can't buy back someone's life, once lost due to ignoring H&S.

 

Hows about putting a cost on:

 

Groundie ticketed all the way to aerial rescue.

Spare climbing Kit etc

 

Then how do we decide whether to spend that, or buy basic equipment, in order to be able to do the job and put food on the table. The net result of compliance with all these regs seems to be a contributing factor, (from other threads) to a lot of people struggling to make a profit.

 

I know my decission, and I don't care if it breaks laws (some of which I regard as political correctness gone mad).

 

My decission applies to my own safety only, where someone else becomes involved, I know that I have a responsibility to travel a fair bit further down the H & S road.

 

Even the NHS is not a bottomless pit of money, it makes decissions on the cost effectiveness of a given life saving machine etc. So we can't just say - what price on a life? this side of H&S compliance needs to be addressed I think.

 

Very good post!!!!!

 

Some very interesting points raised there!!!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi all, (sorry to be the H&S 'nurdy' but here we go!)

 

The requirement to have adequate arrangements at the worksite for 'aerial rescue' comes from the 'Work at Height Regs. 2005', guidance for which states:

Planning

Regulations 4 and 6(1, 2)

17 You must:

■ ensure that no work is done at height if it is safe and reasonably practicable to

do it other than at height;

■ ensure that the work is properly planned, appropriately supervised, and carried

out in as safe a way as is reasonably practicable;

■ plan for emergencies and rescue;

■ take account of the risk assessment carried out under regulation 3 of the

Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations.

 

No longer can employers rely on the emergency services to effect 'rescues' at height, the first call is with them!

 

The AA couldn't have done anything to stop this legislation being introduced, the regulations is the regulations. I see no opportunity whatsoever to apply for an 'exemption' for arboricultural works even though I acknowledge most injured climbers manage to 'self-rescue', thank goodness, but what if they didn't?

 

We only introduce requirements for ACs to comply with legilsation / good practice when circumsatnces dictate we have to, or when we believe it is correct and beneficial so to do, and many ACs are 'little guys' who have to embrace this.

 

Surely this requirement is not so restrictive it stops you from trading effectively?..I hope not, and perhaps it forces the training up of a 2nd competent climber which can only be of benefit to the firm. What could have done (restricted our operations) so was the European attempt a few years ago at banning two-stroke engines because of concerns over emmissions. The AA did represent the industry here and got the proposed legislation overturned.

 

Give us a chance 'guys', work with us for the benefit of all..!

 

Cheers and have a good weekend.

Paul

Edited February 26, 2010 by AA Teccie (Paul)

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Wrote this earlier then had to whiz out for a bit, but it agrees with what skyhuck just posted.

 

I would like to see a list of the actual £ cost of all this H&S stuff, especially from the AA who seem more concerned with our H&S and form filling than the quality of our tree work. (not an attack Paul, I also welcome you and the AA, but want to make a point here)

 

Whilst recognising that you can't buy back someone's life, once lost due to ignoring H&S.

 

Hows about putting a cost on:

 

Groundie ticketed all the way to aerial rescue.

Spare climbing Kit etc

 

Then how do we decide whether to spend that, or buy basic equipment, in order to be able to do the job and put food on the table. The net result of compliance with all these regs seems to be a contributing factor, (from other threads) to a lot of people struggling to make a profit.

 

I know my decission, and I don't care if it breaks laws (some of which I regard as political correctness gone mad).

 

My decission applies to my own safety only, where someone else becomes involved, I know that I have a responsibility to travel a fair bit further down the H & S road.

 

Even the NHS is not a bottomless pit of money, it makes decissions on the cost effectiveness of a given life saving machine etc. So we can't just say - what price on a life? this side of H&S compliance needs to be addressed I think.

 

Quick reply as I have a 70th Birthday to prepare, well okay I have to go to the 'offie' for essential supplies. Thanks for the post here.

 

Unfortunately, 'the way of the (current) world' dictates much emphasis on H&S...which often includes form filling to 'evidence' compliance...to a point! The added bonus to this these days is it can bring with it CHAS, which may open more doors = greater income for you (hopefully!) PLUS H&S embraced can help running of the company...really!!!

 

BUT I'm on a mission to improve work standards as I acknowledge in some, by no means all, instances these have slipped at the expense of form filling...and we MUST pay due regard to our 'finished product' coz it's that which clients will judged. I think it part, with some companies, its the growth they've experienced that the 'proud company owner' who got the AC status is now employing multiple staff and controlling 'quality' becomes more difficult...BUT THEY MUST!!!

 

Lastly, as much as I can, I do understand you have very difficult decisions to make (more so at the moment) but I can't help thinking that if the W@H requiremenst force the issue of training up someone else AND getting them competent, then that has to be to the benefit of you and the firm...dunno!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Mesterh]

Cheers for the explanation:thumbup1:

 

I see its more down to roofers,scaffolders,construction etc than purely down to tree work which I thought it was.

 

Although I would have liked to have been exempt though:001_smile:

 

 

Everything thats costs does have an impact on my business no matter how small the cost is. We have all had the "It's only £20 a week for a new XXXX, surely thats affordably" Well it probably is just like everything else I have to pay for but when it all adds up!

 

A lot of us are small 2/3 man bands and having to have a groundie trained up, buy all the necessary climbing gear,get it LOLER'D every 6 months() plus probably the most important bit having them train and re train all the time to make sure that they have a least a little bit of speed about them does seem to cost a bit and not really benefit me enough.

 

I would think that if you need to be rescued due to a serious injury, major bleed or suffocation problem then it would have to be a very very good/quick rescuer to take charge of the situation, get theie gear on, get to you and rescue you within say 5 minutes or so by which time you are probably going to be dead tbh.

 

I think my resources and time can be spent better elsewhere.

 

Although since I am a climber and have the ticket CSnot sure did it that many years ago and I am always on site when others are climbing my moaning doesnt really matter I suppose.

[skyhuck]

Surely this requirement is not so restrictive it stops you from trading effectively?..I hope not, and perhaps it forces the training up of a 2nd competent climber which can only be of benefit to the firm.

 

Not of any benefit to me, I want a labourer on a labourers wage, not a climber (who doesn't climb) on a climbers wage.

 

I do take your point re W@H.

[Ian Flatters]

Theres always the 3 cut felling i mean rescue technique........ I would say that we all should spend some time being prepaired for such a incident but realisticly we all put it off to get on with the job to get home. Most companys don't want to spend time and money getting you to refresh a rescue, although they should. At the end of the day its one of those things you should do but never get round to it often or at all, like checking tyres, oil, rear lights. Thats just my opinion tho and im sure some companys have allocated time frames for this. But i have worked for 2 Arb approved contractors 5 years at each and they never set aside time for this.