More doom and gloom

[Steven P]

9 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I'll beg to disagree with you there, there are many better ways to store excess without the inefficiency in conversions.

 

You got to do the full quote!! In the medium term yes, I think what ever storage there is has to be an energy dense storage. I don't have the figures but reckon that equivalent energy in pumped storage and in Hydrogen, and Hydrogen will take up much less space, just as an example.

[openspaceman]

5 hours ago, GarethM said:

 

 

Gas should not be used for power stations, whilst I don't want to lament about the old days as I'm not that old.

 

Gas was almost exclusively heating, burnt at point of use and whilst back boilers were awful, at today's 92+ efficiency Vs a power station that's about 30%.

No gas has been burned in open cycle gas turbines in the past year, we have relied heavily on gas to follow demand using  combined cycle gas turbines which convert 60% of the heat energy into electricity.

 

Last week we curtailed more wind generated electricity power, which still has to be paid for, than Hinkley point is designed to produce because the grid couldn't cope with it, yet we will have to pay the French government 3 times more for the use of Hinkley point electricity that we currently pay for un subsidised off shore wind (also foreign owned). The subsidies for sizewell will be higher.

Edited February 14 by openspaceman
missed out "un"

[openspaceman]

1 minute ago, Steven P said:

 

You got to do the full quote!! In the medium term yes, I think what ever storage there is has to be an energy dense storage. I don't have the figures but reckon that equivalent energy in pumped storage and in Hydrogen, and Hydrogen will take up much less space, just as an example.

Sorry but I was busy replying to other misinformation, we can go into the reasons I do not believe hydrogen production will be viable *in this country* later.

[GarethM]

7 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Even in the 30 years of Conservative governments?

Conservatives haven't been conservative since Thatcher. In the 50s the UK was broke, yet we said build it and we did it without paying the Chinese or French a penny.

[Steven P]

45 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Conservatives haven't been conservative since Thatcher. In the 50s the UK was broke, yet we said build it and we did it without paying the Chinese or French a penny.

 

It's not the political party as such but more the idea that Tony Benn, who was Secretary of State for Energy 45 years ago has such as great influence on our energy security today. Not believing that line.

[Capetown]

Do You Have To Pay VAT On Solar Panels? | The Eco Experts

WWW.THEECOEXPERTS.CO.UK

---

The UK government has cut VAT to 0% for solar panels, among other energy-saving materials. The cut will be in place until April 2027.

Not much vat to pay on home installed solar panels.

[Muddy42]

14 hours ago, openspaceman said:

The costs of solar PV and batteries has come down a lot recently such that if I wanted to DIY a new installation of 6kW PV panels £1062, 5kW off grid inverter £1049 and 10kWh of battery £2925 plus fittings, total ~£6k  I would have a system better than the 4kW PV I had fitted for £13k 12 years ago. This would supply all the needs of a 3bed household, except heating, for 8 months of the year. Trouble is to connect it to the grid there is the need for another of these gravy trains, MCS but there is an easy work around. Those prices are inclusive of VAT and a qualified electrician  can claim that back and not charge VAT for the whole installation, giving £1000 to offset labour costs. On a similar system that cost £12k by an MCS installer on my daughter's house she ran her EV from March to October too and it is on target to produce 6MWh in a year. She is paid  up to 15p/kW hour for the excess she exports.

 

For 12 years I have produced more electricity than I used net, for 2 years I have had a battery that has reduced my reliance on the grid to 500kWh/year.With a small few hundred Watt CHP I could cover that with 3 47kg  propane bottles and pay for those with the reduction of standing charges for utilities. I reckon about a quarter of UK houses could do the same.

 

Here is a graphic of nearly a year record, as I only started it last March, but it shows clearly the hungry period around Xmas where the blue is imports from grid and the yellow showing self consumption plus the red being exports to the grid.

 

Interesting.  Are you sure that £6k quote is correct?

 

From the cost of mine, other quotes, your quote, your daughter's quote, I expect solar to to come out at about £3k per kw of generating capacity.  This ignores VAT (which many can reclaim and its been dropped for battery storage now) and assumes the cost of inverter (maybe slightly overloaded) and about double the battery storage so 10kwh for a 5kw system. £6k for a 5kw system would be ridiculously cheap.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Steven P]

Depends what you are asking for, the cheapest (least efficient) are half the price of the most efficient, ranging from about £800 / kwh to £1500 / kwh.

[peds]

On 13/02/2024 at 09:09, Steven P said:

I'd also blame volcanos as well, and forest fires.

 

I forget in what context you brought up volcanoes and forest fires, so this isn't necessarily directed at you, I just remember seeing someone mention them a few pages back. 

 

 

 

Which emits more carbon dioxide: volcanoes or human activities? | NOAA Climate.gov

WWW.CLIMATE.GOV

---

Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year.

 

Regarding volcanoes, they are abdrop in the bucket compared to human output. 

Regarding forest fires, despite them being an essential regenerative process for various ecosystems all over the planet, they are of course getting bigger, more destructive, and more widespread as a result of climate change - hotter temperatures, longer droughts, etc. - and hitting areas that have not evolved to accommodate them; on top of the inevitable release of CO2, of which I'm not sure how the "natural" forest fires stack up against the "unnatural" ones, plus the regular human emissions. That'd be some interesting data to find. 

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Muddy42 said:

 

Interesting.  Are you sure that £6k quote is correct?

 

 

Bear in mind it was a price for parts to DIY and roof mounting adds to the cost, I bought scaffold poles and mounted on them for my recent 1800W

 

15 410 Canadian Solar  @£78

3 Pylontech 3000c @£975

1 5kWsunsink ecco offgrid/grid inverter @£1,049

=£5144

 

Personally I would spend a bit extra on 5 MPPT DC chargers and a Victron inverter to avoid chinese stuff phoning home

 

Also look at this graphic that shows the fall in price of PV and the rise in cost of nuclear