Law about qualificactions to fell trees

[john87]

If anyone gets hurt the golf club will have some talking to do, would be easier just to get the cert.

 

Having said that, as has been pointed out "should" [as in PUWER quoted above] is most certainly not "must"

 

The HSE site though, says that an employed person MUST have had the training and a cert, Anyone got a link to the actual act of parliament that states this. I do not think there is one..

 

Contrast this, to the situation with asbestos. There is no doubt what certs are needed there, as there is the "control of asbestos regulations 2012"

 

john..

[daltontrees]

3 hours ago, john87 said:

If anyone gets hurt the golf club will have some talking to do, would be easier just to get the cert.

 

Having said that, as has been pointed out "should" [as in PUWER quoted above] is most certainly not "must"

 

The HSE site though, says that an employed person MUST have had the training and a cert, Anyone got a link to the actual act of parliament that states this. I do not think there is one..

 

Contrast this, to the situation with asbestos. There is no doubt what certs are needed there, as there is the "control of asbestos regulations 2012"

 

john..

The Asbestos Regulations and PUWER and MHSWR are all made under the Heath and Safety at Work Act 1974.

[agrimog]

if this forum continues it will open the old can of worms......"tickets, re-assesments, how long things last, and what you actually can do ", these days, with every "outdor" shop selling some make of chainsaw, toolstores selling battery top handles, and even chainsaw bars for circular saws, there is a increase in jobing joiners using them....no "tickets" a basic knowledge and maybe, if your lucky someone giving them 5 min's instruction, we are in a way returning to the way it was before "the big storm", when there was little or no regulation about saws, then suddenly the massive increase in injuries forced H&S to do something. I have been asked on several occasions "do you have a ticket for your sawmill", I just laugh these days, 20years experience and still picking up little tricks here and there, I wonder who the instructor would be....as I now have an "apprentice", I make sure everything they are shown is noted in the work book so there is a record, this, as far I am aware is a perfectly acceptable training record and covers us both as far as insurannce goes, as for use of other tools and equipment they recieve onsite training as reqd

 

[5thelement]

7 hours ago, agrimog said:

if this forum continues it will open the old can of worms......"tickets, re-assesments, how long things last, and what you actually can do ", these days, with every "outdor" shop selling some make of chainsaw, toolstores selling battery top handles, and even chainsaw bars for circular saws, there is a increase in jobing joiners using them....no "tickets" a basic knowledge and maybe, if your lucky someone giving them 5 min's instruction, we are in a way returning to the way it was before "the big storm", when there was little or no regulation about saws, then suddenly the massive increase in injuries forced H&S to do something. I have been asked on several occasions "do you have a ticket for your sawmill", I just laugh these days, 20years experience and still picking up little tricks here and there, I wonder who the instructor would be....as I now have an "apprentice", I make sure everything they are shown is noted in the work book so there is a record, this, as far I am aware is a perfectly acceptable training record and covers us both as far as insurannce goes, as for use of other tools and equipment they recieve onsite training as reqd

 

The training you are delivering to your apprentice is commendable and reminds me of my own experience after leaving college with my RFS tucked under my belt. 
My first employer had set up in 1958 and was 67 at the time, he had forgotten more than I knew and taught me things that aren’t in any books, logging all the things that we had covered, including using the Forestor Mill.
I certainly didn’t learn the majority of what I now know from getting the recognised training/assessment route.
Unfortunately, these kinds of employers are very few and far between.

One only needs to look at what regularly comes through the doors on my training courses, working lads already in the industry who have been ‘trained’ by the boss, talking and performing absolute shite with knackered 261’s with bits hanging off.

Most employers cannot be trusted to deliver adequate training so it must therefore be trusted into the hands of recognised/regulated private companies like LANTRA, sad but true. 

[john87]

19 hours ago, agrimog said:

if this forum continues it will open the old can of worms......"tickets, re-assesments, how long things last, and what you actually can do ", these days, with every "outdor" shop selling some make of chainsaw, toolstores selling battery top handles, and even chainsaw bars for circular saws, there is a increase in jobing joiners using them....no "tickets" a basic knowledge and maybe, if your lucky someone giving them 5 min's instruction, we are in a way returning to the way it was before "the big storm", when there was little or no regulation about saws, then suddenly the massive increase in injuries forced H&S to do something. I have been asked on several occasions "do you have a ticket for your sawmill", I just laugh these days, 20years experience and still picking up little tricks here and there, I wonder who the instructor would be....as I now have an "apprentice", I make sure everything they are shown is noted in the work book so there is a record, this, as far I am aware is a perfectly acceptable training record and covers us both as far as insurannce goes, as for use of other tools and equipment they recieve onsite training as reqd

 

I agree, I have seen somewhere the HSE saying that a person MUST have training [perfectly true] and also that they MUST have a certificate [certainly NOT true as far as i can see]

 

Nothing wrong with what you are doing [I would say]

 

john..

[agrimog]

further to my post, it brings memories of having to do a telehandler certification as I reqd a "ticket" to be able to use one.......I am now in my 60's and I think I was about 14 or 15 when our first "forklift" arrived on the farm, basically a tractor reversed and a forklift mast stuck on it......from that through just about every conceviable type of "thing" with forks on......including some very weird and special things in the military, Ive driven them all.......so 2 hours in the classroom being taught the basics by a rather young gentleman, a quick written exam, doh....and then a practical test.....moving some boxes on pallets about.....so upon finishing and being told stack them on that wagon.....placed them in such a way as the instructor could not get them back off with the same machine......I just looked shrugged my shoulders, laughed and walked away laughing, I wonder if he workrd out how I actually did it yet....lol......

[maybelateron]

1 hour ago, agrimog said:

.so 2 hours in the classroom being taught the basics by a rather young gentleman, a quick written exam, doh....and then a practical test.....moving some boxes on pallets about.....so upon finishing and being told stack them on that wagon.....placed them in such a way as the instructor could not get them back off with the same machine......I just looked shrugged my shoulders, laughed and walked away laughing, I wonder if he workrd out how I actually did it yet....lol....

Reminds me of similar concept: I learnt to drive in an A35 van on the farm over the road when I was 12/13, spent all my spare time working there. Progressed to ploughing, baling, grain carting etc as any lad working on a farm did/does. Had some driving lessons to get ready for driving test when 17. My instructor had an escort Mk2 and could not turn it round on the tarmac square in front of our garage. This area was large enough for my parents to park their caravan on and my dad to turn round his Peugot 504 estate (long car) when caravan in place. Caravan was not in place and instructor could not turn his Escort round, so I had to do it for him. Of course he did have his IAM (institute of advance motorists) badge proudly displayed on the car!

[john87]

My mum was a school teacher for 44 years. She hated having to go on all the stupid teacher training courses as at the time it was all this "back to basics" and going on about how they were going to return to "traditional" methods, leaving aside of course, that none of the instructors, or anyone from the education office, were remotely old enough to have any experience of same.

 

Anyway, one day my mum is in a class being lectured to by one of these muppets who decided to talk to my mum like she was an idiot.

 

Unhappily for them, my mum recognised them and announces loudly; "I know you, i taught you, you were in my class"

 

That kind of put a stop to that..

 

john.

[john87]

Just thought i would add, my poor mum.. She is 89 now and in a care home. They say dementia, but i know different, Korsakoffs psychosis brought on by drinking.

 

Anyway, 44 years as a teacher and now, she does not really remember that she WAS a teacher.. I gave her a box of chocolates at christmas, not even sure she knew what they were..

 

Occasional flashbacks though. I asked her if she could remember our address when we lived in Southend over 55 years ago. She count not at first, until i told her the house number, 173. She added instantly "Newington Ave"

 

Like most drunks she hid it very well. First sign i had, is i took her back to Southend one day. We got to have a tour of a school she taught in and where i was a 4 year old pupil.

 

The staff asked her questions that she struggled to answer, there was like a delay as she thought. I knew that just a few months before she would have answered like lightning..

 

The hospital is starting to see people in their 30's with ARBD "Alcohol related brain damage"

 

Mind how you go...

 

john..

[krummholz]

On 08/02/2024 at 14:52, daltontrees said:

Adequate supervision is defined, the supervisor needs to have been trained in training.

 

Where are you getting this from?

I understood that training can be consolidated (i.e. before certification) on the job if supervised by someone with the relevant ticket(s) and suitable experience, initially on a 1:1 ratio, then 1:2, with the supervisor then being able to work in the vicinity.

 

From INDG317:

 

"Where training is being consolidated through workplace-based experience, the trainee should be supervised by a person competent in the use of a chainsaw for the work being done by the trainee and who holds the relevant competence certificate or award."