Arb digger

[beechhunter]

Evening all, 

 

We have finally got to the point were we require an digger to enable us to continue to grow the business, we have various contracts with local authorities and also carry out rail work so a digger is the next logical step. I have been looking at a volvo ecr25d looking for pros and cons or people's thoughts on other diggers/makes looking to purchase a new unit then adapt to our needs. 

Many thanks 

[monkeybusiness]

Whatever you go for make sure it has 2x double acting proportional aux supplies (ideally operated by joystick rollers) - this will make adding attachments far easier in the future. 

[doobin]

1 hour ago, monkeybusiness said:

Whatever you go for make sure it has 2x double acting proportional aux supplies (ideally operated by joystick rollers) - this will make adding attachments far easier in the future. 

X2. Also makes it easy to add a basic tiltrotator. I specced twin aux even with my 1.9t and I’m glad I did. 

[Slicer Dicer]

3 hours ago, beechhunter said:

Evening all, 

 

We have finally got to the point were we require an digger to enable us to continue to grow the business, we have various contracts with local authorities and also carry out rail work so a digger is the next logical step. I have been looking at a volvo ecr25d looking for pros and cons or people's thoughts on other diggers/makes looking to purchase a new unit then adapt to our needs. 

Many thanks 

ECR25d isn't particularly stable being a near zero tail. If your doing alot of grab work and not in restricted areas a conventional tail swing is much much better 

[skc101fc]

Don't know the particular machine,  but always used to make my heart sink to see a site with a zero swing turn up for milling work,  craning over my lucas mill. I knew it was always going to be a trialing day , that reach and lift were compromised by balance and ability. There's a reason why zero's were manufactured,  and why road construction and service industries love them- there's less restrictions to traffic flow when passing a working site, you can keep full lane open passing the excavation rather than narrowing to accommodate the extra length of a full fat machine as it swings. 

Horses for courses, but if your doing street work zero is the way to go, if not, old school will give way more capacity in all directions. 

[swinny]

Fat bottom girls you make the rockin' world go round 

[Conor Wright]

I've been looking at mini diggers the last while. Since the day I sold my old one to be honest! The loader I got in its place is a great tool but a man needs a digger, so i had some seat time in various machines through a combination of relentless rain, friends in the hire and machinery sales business, boredom and a bit of blagging in dealerships.

I may as well stick my thoughts on here. 

My first idea was to get a new machine so I priced around and all the top brands were out of reach for me. Then I started looking into Chinese machines. I started at the bottom pricewise.

 

Xiniu/rhinoceros xn28. light build, loud in the cab, cab is big but seat is poor. Bad layout. jerky, very low ground clearance. not good looking, very poorly routed hydraulics. Saw a video of the factory. Ive seen better cattle sheds. No.

 

Sunward 25uf. Reasonably well built, could be better. Quick, maybe a bit jerky once hours clock up. Hard to say why, it just feels that way. the first pull back when grading always took a little correction. Not an operator thing, its in the geometry somewhere. A lot of cheap looking electrics. Hydraulic routing is poor. Digs well, hard to grade with. Well specced as standard. Value for money for a part time operator. Cab is tight getting in and out, also the window is clunky to put up, some of the switches are in awkward places. Maybe, but sell it as soon as warranty is up.

 

Dgm et26 possibly an oddity, its a Chinese machine branded by a company over here in Ireland. Almost identical to the sunward but with mostly cosmetic changes. Not sure what to think regarding warranty etc. Machine is so similar to the sunward I'm going to chance saying it is from the same factory. Or the one next door. Lack of knowledge about how and where its actually made put me off but its well specced and full of cheap looking switches to twiddle. No. Or maybe? Probably not.

 

Sany 26u. good build quality, under carriage and kingpost are a bit light. A lot of electrics. Very fast. Hydraulics are fairly well routed but still using cheap fittings. Very well specced as standard. If the warranty is as good as advertised its great. Plenty of power, quieter than the other Chinese machines. The best so far but a hard no for me due to the door being too narrow and the lack of head room with the window up. If you're less than six foot three and already fairly handy on a digger it's worth a look. If the 5 year warranty is true I'd keep it for the five years and maybe longer if I hadn't had any issues.

 

Yanmar sv26 the only non Chinese machine I looked at new. I've also hired the same model machine a few times, so its the one in this list I'm most familiar with. Very similar build to the sany, quality wise. but the hydraulics feel a little better, softer might be a way of describing it. Basic machine price is on par with the full spec sany. Comfortable, fast but smooth, quiet, but a little shuddery when tracking. Digs well, grades well. Nice cab. Extra auxiliaries are expensive and factory fitting can take a while. I'd have one. But I'd trade it in once the warranty is out or soon after. I've had experience with yanmar for major parts before and they're expensive. Can't see them lasting beyond 10 years (what I consider the absolute minimum life of anything with an engine if I'm to be honest) without getting rather tired

 

Wacker neuson ez26 year 2021 1500 hours. Sold as seen trade in, so not tidied up for sale. Has vds, made it feel a bit unsteady. OK hydraulics, felt underpowered when digging, didn't like the vds but can see its use in some places. I discounted it as I thought the vds wouldn't be of any use to me and a source of problems. Also didn't have twin aux. Not a bad machine, a hint of China off it though. It had a worn look for its age and hours. If I did only slope work or had one short leg or a permanent crick in my neck I'd consider one, but not for lifting trunks and big piles of brash. Not built for the long haul. 

 

Bobcat 27z 3000 hours year 2019. Tight for a second hand machine, has been through the workshop. quick but very smooth. Nicest cab and seating position so far. Quiet. Strange radio though, didn't like it. Lacked the necessary aux hydraulics on the machine I used, but they are optional, what I wanted (twin proportional plus case drain and hyd qh) is a factory fit only as its not worth retro fitting due to replacement of joysticks etc. Priced one new in the spec i wanted and it took me a moment to process. You could have two Chinese machines for the price.(two bad ones, but still) Overall good machine, but watch the specs, they add up. I'd have one. Probably a good buy new or secondhand. Could be a 10 year machine if the electrics hold up.

 

Kubota u27-4 1800 hours year 2018 direct off site, hasnt been through a workshop. bit of play in the kingpin. By far the best machine all round, even allowing for wear, no unnecessary electrics, comfortable, fast, smooth, quiet, pulled a perfect grade first time. Balls of power, but it gives it gently, so that even fast repetitive movements remained smooth. Best "feel" of all the machines I tried. (For my operating style at least) Hydraulics are all tucked away, running through the boom so it's ideal for tree work, hedge cutting, flailing, brash handling etc. This one had every extra fitted, site ready, guards, all the plumbing. Very competitive price if comparing used but fresh kubota to new Chinese machines. I'd have a new one in the morning if i could afford it but they command a premium price. Even more so with arb digger specs. 

 

Maybe the above will be of use to someone, it's totally personal, ive tried to be as unbiased and honest as i can. others may disagree with what I've said, but so be it. Its just my own thoughts on the few machines I've sat in over the last number of weeks.

 

If I had to pick one machine from the list new, and money wasn't a question. it would be the kubota every time, even though I only tried the secondhand one. 

 

Best spec for money has to go to the sunward.

Its all there from the factory. Poor quality of the visible hydraulics made me think it may not be that well put together under the cab though.

 

Best value for money overall. Sany. Spec, warranty (if they honour it) and build quality are up there. Spray it orange or a different shade of yellow and change the stickers and you could possibly fool me.

 

Worst. rhinoceros/xiniu. it has a lot of extras but they're all a bit crap. OK for a one machine does all smallholder but not for commercial use. It also looks like whoever drew it sneezed a lot and their crayon kept slipping on the page.

 

Yes, you've reached the end. Congratulations. 

 

 

 

 

[doobin]

10 hours ago, beechhunter said:

Evening all, 

 

We have finally got to the point were we require an digger to enable us to continue to grow the business, we have various contracts with local authorities and also carry out rail work so a digger is the next logical step. I have been looking at a volvo ecr25d looking for pros and cons or people's thoughts on other diggers/makes looking to purchase a new unit then adapt to our needs. 

Many thanks 

 

Both @monkeybusiness and I bought Bobcat E27's four years ago, mainly on account of the extra services that he mentioned. Just tick a box on the order form. £600 option from factory for extra pipes/divertor plus another £600 option to have rollers on both joystics rather than a pedal- this is essential for arb work.

 

Actually, thinking back, I'm pretty sure I bought it for the above reasons and then happened to mention on here the five years free finance (which they offered at the time).  And well, you know, monkey see monkey do! 🤷‍♂️

 

But seriously, it's been a great machine bar a few niggles. As an Arb digger, I don't reckon you'd get better in that weight class. I'm constantly amazed what it will lift and shift. It was easily my best purchase ever, and I say that as someone with a lot of mechanisation. Take note of the important distinction between the Bobcat E27, and the more common E27z. The z is zero turn, whereas the 27 is 'reduced tailswing'. It's brilliant. It looks like a zero but is just so planted.  Minimal tailswing. UK standard spec when I bought was with an extra counterweight- check that this is still the case. The other big difference, and it's an important one, is that it runs a larger engine than the E27z. Interestingly, the E27z and much of the Bobcat mini range have switched to Yanmar engines from Kubota, but the E27 is still Kubota. This extra power is what you need to be looking for in an Arb digger- it drags whole trees about easily, pushes hard on the tracks and fills the rams quicker so you get stuff done quicker. Don't neglect this in favour of the cheaper E27z would be my advice.

 

I'm pleased to see @Conor Wright's opinion on the lack of wear in a 3000 hour Bobcat he looked at. I've been very impressed how little mine has worn given it's life doing 90% Arb work (and the other 10% seemingly breaker and riddle bucket work...), although I'm very diligent with the grease. Black moly grease for pins and bushes, lithium for the slew ring.

 

When I bought, the Kubota KX30-High Spec was exactly the same money, but the Bobcat had the five years free finance so that's why I went for Bobcat. Honestly, I'm glad I did. Yes, the paintwork could be better (although my 27 isn't nearly as bad as my E19). I often hear that the KX30 isn't nice to grade with, but to be honest the Bobcat isn't the greatest either even after a mod from the dealers. But 90% of my work is lifting and shifting, and I would think long and hard and get plenty of demo or hire time in a different machine before changing.

 

As regards grabs- the only brand I would consider would be Intermecato. I'd usually recommend Approved Hydraulics, but having bought four Intermecato grabs and a couple of rotators from them and asking for 'best price;' for another £4k worth of clamshell and rotator,  I was disappointed they just offered me RRP. It wasn't a cheeky request in light of what I' ve spent with them already and a looming recession. So I'd go to Attachment Soloutions Ltd- nice guy and a better price. Join the PlantTalk forum for digger advice and he gives a small forum discount.

 

With the headstock for the grab, make sure you get one made that has the pins at an angle- around 35° IIRC. This is to allow you to reach out and grab things in front of you- standing saplings prior to cutting, etc. Very important.

 

My final advice would be advice I wish I'd been given. Start off with a Scandinavian hitch standard- probably S40. Don't be swayed by the dealers 'free Whites brand buckets and quick hitch'. There's still a cost to them to provide to this set (maybe £1200), so pay a little extra for S40 standard. This will give you a much better quality hitch that won't wear, lower build height and just plug and play for a tiltrotator in the future. I'd also spec it to be hydraulic- all my diggers have hydraulic hitches and it's brilliant. But having just bought a secondhand tiltrotator, it's cost me another £2.5k per digger to change the existing buckets and hitches to S standard. So pay an extra £1k when buying your digger and futureproof yourself. I'd highly recommend Steelwrist for an S40 quick hitch- I was blown away by the quality of one I've just fitted to my E19. So light and neat, and expander pins as standard to allow for any wear in the hitch eyes.

Edited January 5 by doobin

[Slicer Dicer]

I have 2x 3 ton takeuchis which I think are ace- I doubt there's much in the so called towable bracket that will match them for lift capacity and stability simply due to the massive rear overhang compared to most others that are reduced . They are also  smooth and nice machines to operate- I have had 4 takeuchis now and they have all been ultra reliable but their sub 2 ton machines are dog shite IMO so avoid those. I say they're towable but reality is they're almost certainly overweight on a plant trailer, but I don't move mine around alot so tend to take buckets and attachments separately in the dumper for example.

[AHPP]

17 minutes ago, Slicer Dicer said:

I have 2x 3 ton takeuchis which I think are ace- I doubt there's much in the so called towable bracket that will match them for lift capacity and stability simply due to the massive rear overhang compared to most others that are reduced . They are also  smooth and nice machines to operate- I have had 4 takeuchis now and they have all been ultra reliable but their sub 2 ton machines are dog shite IMO so avoid those. I say they're towable but reality is they're almost certainly overweight on a plant trailer, but I don't move mine around alot so tend to take buckets and attachments separately in the dumper for example.

 

I hired one of the overgrown micros with servos. 1.2? Thought it was a lovely size, strong enough and just generally a nice compromise.