Right, wrong, or just playing the game?

[eggsarascal]

Probably because the vast majority of the left are the poorest in society, so less likely to have photo ID. And the fact that at the last GE a tiny number of people were found to be voting illegally. And, also you me our anyone else could get a postal vote, I stand to be corrected but I don’t think you need ID for a postal vote.

[doobin]

13 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Probably because the vast majority of the left are the poorest in society, so less likely to have photo ID. And the fact that at the last GE a tiny number of people were found to be voting illegally. And, also you me our anyone else could get a postal vote, I stand to be corrected but I don’t think you need ID for a postal vote.

A photo id costs nothing. 
 

I’m conflicted about this. The libertarian in me hates with every fibre of my being the notion of an ID card and was ready to take to the streets to protest their introduction. 
 

But I also hate the idea of

someone who is not eligible to vote doing so, and yes, voting to improve their position at my expense. 

[trigger_andy]

23 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Probably because the vast majority of the left are the poorest in society, so less likely to have photo ID. And the fact that at the last GE a tiny number of people were found to be voting illegally. And, also you me our anyone else could get a postal vote, I stand to be corrected but I don’t think you need ID for a postal vote.

Thats such a lame excuse. That the left are so poor and cant afford the most basic of photo ID is just utter nonsense and you know it. 

 

It could be argued that those under the age of 45 are significantly more likely to vote Labour and this is also the group Id argue that has grown up in a world where photo ID is a daily life necessity.  The list of what is accepted as photo ID is quite comprehensive with many being cheap or even free to apply for. 

 

 

 

To top that off if you're somehow that poor to not be able to apply for one of the plethora of accepted Photo ID's in the list you can apply for a free Voter ID Document. 

 

There really is not a single valid reason not to show ID when voting.

 

Accepted forms of photo ID

WWW.ELECTORALCOMMISSION.ORG.UK

---

Learn about the different types of photo ID that will be accepted at elections that require photo ID

 

[trigger_andy]

23 minutes ago, doobin said:

But I also hate the idea of

someone who is not eligible to vote doing so, and yes, voting to improve their position at my expense. 

Or voting multiple times.....

[AHPP]

8 hours ago, doobin said:

Interesting question. I see where you are going with this, and I would counter you by pointing out the existing rights that you currently gain when you turn 21. They all involve a very large amount of responsibility- adopting a child, supervising a learner driver and gaining your commercial pilots license. 
 

You could argue that voting is not as important as the above, and given our current shitshow of a system I’d be inclined to agree with you. What I would like, however, is a society where people take their civic responsibilities seriously, and as such I’d support PR with a voting age of 21 so that people would have some actual life experience rather than being swayed by parties (admittedly usually left wing, there’s my bias) promising freebies. 
 

I’d keep the age of enlistment at 16 with parents consent and 18 otherwise. The army is a great force for good in many otherwise troubled young lives. In recognition of their service to this country, I’d also have an exemption from the voting age for service members. You could of course then argue that public sector workers should be given earlier votes also, but I would limit to to those who sign up to risk their lives for this country. 
 

 

 

As much as army life might be good for a lot of people and might offset some social disharmony (ie taking tearaways away from British council estates and putting them in Iraqi council estates), it produces people who only know how to function with top-down power structures and who will vehemently reject individualism as adults. Weighting democracy in favour of that system is like when something with water in tips over. It starts going, the water runs to the side, weights it more and makes sure it goes.

Plus, fighting mindset combined with the standard attributes of the public sector (corruption, mob mentality, lack of accountability etc) is doubly dangerous. Look at Stanford Prison. Imagine if those kids, instead of being told to stop at the end of the week, had been given medals and promotions. Those are the Guantanamo guards of the future, pissing on a caged arab with broken hands and feet. 

 

On army raising, I watched The Hunger Games yesterday. It's set in a 'dystopian future' where the rich live in the capital city and the poor live in 12 outside districts and are only allowed food if they work. Every year, the rich pick a couple of poor kids from each district and make them all fight to the death so they can make money from televising it. There is of course a buoyant support industry in arming them, training them etc. It would have been a less depressing watch if it wasn't exactly how countries currently constitute armies.

Edited May 18, 2023 by AHPP

[Joe Newton]

7 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

As much as army life might be good for a lot of people and might offset some social disharmony (ie taking tearaways away from British council estates and putting them in Iraqi council estates), it produces people who only know how to function with top-down power structures and who will vehemently reject individualism as adults. Weighting democracy in favour of that system is like when something with water in tips over. It starts going, the water runs to the side, weights it more and makes sure it goes.

Plus, fighting mindset combined with the standard attributes of the public sector (corruption, mob mentality, lack of accountability etc) is doubly dangerous. Look at Stanford Prison. Imagine if those kids, instead of being told to stop at the end of the week, had been given medals and promotions. Those are the Guantanamo guards of the future, pissing on a caged arab with broken hands and feet. 

 

On army raising, I watched The Hunger Games yesterday. It's set in a 'dystopian future' where the rich live in the capital city and the poor live in 12 outside districts and are only allowed food if they work. Every year, the rich pick a couple of poor kids from each district and make them fight to the death so they can make money from televising it. There is of course a buoyant support industry in arming them, training them etc. It would have been a less depressing watch if it wasn't exactly how countries currently constitute armies.

It's a copy of Battle Royale, but with relatable white faces.

 

I didn't mind Jennifer Lawrence though. 

[trigger_andy]

14 minutes ago, AHPP said:

s much as army life might be good for a lot of people and might offset some social disharmony (ie taking tearaways away from British council estates and putting them in Iraqi council estates), it produces people who only know how to function with top-down power structures and who will vehemently reject individualism as adults.

Norway still has conscription and in my opinion none of what you write here is true. From personal observation I’d say it has very positive results. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by trigger_andy

[trigger_andy]

3 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

It's a copy of Battle Royale, but with relatable white faces.

 

I didn't mind Jennifer Lawrence though. 

Interestingly though is the huge popularity of Asian, particularly South Korean movies and series such as Alice in Wonderland, Train to Busan and Squid games to name a few. Not to mention Japanese Manga and Anime. I’d say very few care about the colour of people’s skin if the storytelling is good. 

[AHPP]

2 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Norway still has conscription and in my opinion none if what write here is true. From personal observation I’d say it has very positive results. 

 

Don't you work for Halliburton?

[doobin]

3 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Norway still has conscription and in my opinion none if what write here is true. From personal observation I’d say it has very positive results. 

Would you not say that the Norwegian mindset is very different from the a British one?

 

Basically, none of what I believe in seems like it would work here in the UK as we have such a sick society.