How long have we urban dwellers got?

[openspaceman]

Vast majority of Londoners support ban on wood burners | Air pollution | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Exclusive: Poll shows national support for ban in urban areas, where burners have worst impact

 

Picture seems to show someone burning wet wood  and doesn't look like  it is in Britain.

 

This is something I seldom see now near me and generally only notice white smoke for a short while as the stove warms up.

[neiln]

I've been thinking, 'how long?' over the last few weeks too.  Complicated.  There is no safe level of pm2.5, policing anything fair takes a lot of resource, policing a complete ban is not much easier perhaps,can't recall the source but fairly sure I read from somewhere reliable that a pretty high percentage of domestic burning is still in open fires -seems wrong to lump modern stoves in the same class, they won't tackle bonfires, pizza ovens and BBQ but they produce far more smoke, stopping the'middle class vanity burners' is very different to removing a cheap heat source from those that can't afford other heat, is proper education of users a better solution and is it a viable? Does the government really care about any of that when they are compelled to act on air quality by law (or we were, we are breaking European law).

 

My guess, government will act in the next 2-5 years to outline a complete ban in urban areas, to come into place 2-5 years later.  I don't think I'd spend too much on installing a stove now.... Although with current gas prices I could spend ~£1500 and get much of it back in a year. 

 

I'm also of the view that global warming is as big as issue as local pollution and locally sourced waste wood turned to quality firewood and used is better than burning fossil fuel.

 

Oh and pretty much every article I read seems full of errors and misquotes of government reports, even the government reports I have seen more sensational article than scientific paper so it's hard for someone too work out just how bad a well operated stove is.

 

Final random thought for now.... My neighbour burns smokeless coal, it smells and smokes much more than my 2 year seasoned wood, if they ban domestic burning it should, and likely will be, a complete ban on all, wood and coal.

[Macpherson]

46 minutes ago, neiln said:

Oh and pretty much every article I read seems full of errors and misquotes of government reports, even the government reports I have seen more sensational article than scientific paper so it's hard for someone too work out just how bad a well operated stove is.

 

I'll say first that I'm also fairly bothered about just what crap about keeping ourselves warm may be messed with in the near future.

 

But in quoting you, to me this is the nub of every agenda that's pushed by government, whose 'leaders'  imo are only bought and paid for puppets receiving their orders from larger interests.  

 

Confusing each and every issue in the seemingly endless stream of current disaster 'distractions' with the intent of creating as much division as possible would appear to be their main business... just look at the last few years.

 

As for quoting science or scientists, well that's wearing a bit thin too.. only the very small percentage of these people that can't be influenced should be given any credence, and we all know how they get treated in this new world that's filled with fragile minds so eager to believe the complete nonsense / hysteria spread by a social media ' Idiocrasy '.

 

There are many types of pollution that I'd put above the small amount of smoke particulates in the air, and in saying this I've spent my whole life breathing wood smoke... 

... processed low value food, drink and pharmaceuticals for a start, but I don't see any of that coming under scrutiny... others may disagree, but that's ok.. common sense is getting more unpopular by the day🙄

 

 

 

[Paul in the woods]

I can see a ban on the legal installation of efficient wood burners but not much done to stop the installation of something dodgy or the use of open fires, bonfires etc. 

 

I can't help wondering if the successive governments had done a better job then energy costs would be much cheaper and the need for stoves much reduced. By that I mean things like investing in nuclear much sooner if you're going to stop using our own gas and actively encouraging energy efficient buildings rather than paying people to waste energy like they are doing now.

[Canal Navvy]

I'm expecting to see that a leading technology company is close to production of a domestic particle filter and is busy creating a market.

It'll start with a big tax payer funded grant for the posh houses to build the market and will finish with a mandated service contract for the masses 🤫

[difflock]

I kinda suspect that those so stridently complaining and protesting about the hazards of wood smoke, probably use aerosol body sprays, plug in air freshners, never mind a percentage of them vaping or smoking cannabis. Or perhaps so overuse bleaches, harsh cleaning chemicals and antibiotics on their over-sterile dwellings, themselves and their children, that their immune systems are fornicated. But they choose to blame some unrelated outside influence.

Bit like black mould always being the landlords fault, not ever, ever anything to do with the tenants unhealthy habits or slovenly behavouirs.

Edited March 2, 2023 by difflock

[GarethM]

Does seem to have long ago created a society of kids in the bubble, granted the kid realises in the end and breaks free.

 

Question is when, as a lot of people seem to completely lack any sense of perspective and are so focused on one small data of research it forgoes all other reasoning.

[neiln]

My guess would be a complete ban on their use in urban environments which then takes away the market for the fuel in urban areas. Whether a ban on the sale of fuels in urban areas is workable I'm not sure, but if it is then perhaps that.

[GarethM]

They're probably using the threat to push the HETAS scheme.

 

The whole article is the usual guff, same regurgitated statistics, early deaths not actual.

 

And a nice admission that Khan has banned them in new and refurbished properties but fails to say if this is outright or just the eco design standards.

Edited March 2, 2023 by GarethM

[neiln]

I've noticed one of the very common errors in the articles is describing kiln dried wood as certified smokeless 🙄. Probably lazy journalism but ...Is that part of any agenda?