MS880 seized, again!

[pleasant]

25:1 oil......jeez, is that some old stock they're using. I haven't sold 25:1 mix oil for well over 20 years in the UK. All the decent stuff is 50:1 and the even more decent stuff it up to 100:1

Edited December 26, 2022 by pleasant

[spudulike]

On the big saws, it is generally owners using 1/4 tank and sticking it on the shelf for three months and then dragging it out thinking.....I may get the fell out of that tank.....10 minutes later...seized saw.

I did get a 880 in once.... lacking power...oiler wasn't working fully!

[pleasant]

8 minutes ago, spudulike said:

On the big saws, it is generally owners using 1/4 tank and sticking it on the shelf for three months and then dragging it out thinking.....I may get the fell out of that tank.....10 minutes later...seized saw.

I did get a 880 in once.... lacking power...oiler wasn't working fully!

True. I don't get much of the really big stuff in. Most of mine is domestic stuff from the weekend warriors or entry level pro stuff from the man in a van gardener trade. I generally get two or three of those in a year lacking power and smoking a lot. Remove the exhaust and away it goes....constant use with an overly rich mix simply clogs the muffler so it can't breathe. Tend to be the old grumbler gardeners who still think you can get 25:1 pre mix from an esso pump dispenser at the petrol station. When they realise they can't they then buy some 50:1 stuff from me and run it for three months at 25:1. Then i see them 

[Echo]

On 15/12/2022 at 15:56, NickJW66 said:

Hi all, just wondered if anyone out there has had the same problem.... Have Ms880 from new, this summer it siezed up. Taking advice from a repair technician  fitted new piston and cylinder, increased oil ratio mix to 40:1. Saw ran great since then, till yesterday when it nipped up, started again and then siezed solid. Exhaust side scored badly again, like a lack of lubrication. Technician now saying it could be leaking seal/gasket, will do pressure test...

.

 

I doubt there will be a warranty on this saw, given you put in a piston yourself, so it looks

like you will have to get a good mechanic to repair and test it. Were you milling with the saw,

and what oil did you use in the mix, 50:1 I would never use, just not enough oil in my view.

Do you just start the saw and immediately begin cutting.

 

[Stubby]

12 minutes ago, Echo said:

50:1 I would never use, just not enough oil in my view.

Do you just start the saw and immediately begin cutting.

 

So what ratio mix do you use , just curious as I would not use anything other than 50:1 . 

[spudulike]

The oil manufacturer states a ratio and if you use that, it will work as intended so if the mix is new, the engine will be lubricated correctly. Personally....I tend to use a little more just for safety sake but that is my choice.

The correct ratio is the ratio stated by the OIL manufacturer and not the possible manufacturer of the 1980s equipment you are using......50:1 was an impossible dream in those days.

MS880 - do the clean up on the cylinder, new piston, pressure/vac check and then tach the machine conservatively.....all will be good but do check the oil pinion drive....it is a weak link in my experience!

[pleasant]

31 minutes ago, spudulike said:

The oil manufacturer states a ratio and if you use that, it will work as intended so if the mix is new, the engine will be lubricated correctly. Personally....I tend to use a little more just for safety sake but that is my choice.

The correct ratio is the ratio stated by the OIL manufacturer and not the possible manufacturer of the 1980s equipment you are using......50:1 was an impossible dream in those days.

MS880 - do the clean up on the cylinder, new piston, pressure/vac check and then tach the machine conservatively.....all will be good but do check the oil pinion drive....it is a weak link in my experience!

Absolutely correct...but try explaining that to a weekend warrior who's just come straight to you after buying a titan saw (other crap makes are available) from screwfix and the handbook poorly translated from Chinese into English states 40:1 recommended ratio. Nomally starts with 'I've just got a saw from screwfix and the handbook states I should use 40:1 oil'

 

'You won't find 40:1 mix oil....certainly in the UK. All decent quality oil sold by a specialist is now a 50:1 mix. A little goes a lot further than it used to in the old days of even 25:1'

 

'...but can I use that at 40:1 like the handbook states?'

 

'No, long term it will be too rich and you will have issues'

 

'so what do I do?'

 

'You buy this, mix it at 50:1 ONLY, and it will run in any 2-stroke machine like yours perfectly- irrelevant of what your handbook says'

 

'...but won't it know if it's incorrect?'

 

'It is not incorrect. It is correct ratio for the oil I am selling you. Look, it is the oil manufacturer who knows precisely the correct ratio for maximum protection and performance for their oil they have developed. Look at it this way- we service loads of different makes of machines....none come in with their handbooks, but the ALL leave here with a tank of what we put in- which is Stihl RED at a 50:1 mix and they all work fine. The only way your saw is going to know the difference in ratio, is if you don't put enough oil in or you put too much in. Eventually you will find out is been incorrect, and that will cost money to put right'

 

'so why does the handbook state 40:1?'

 

'because in certain parts of the world they are still using lesser developed oils, and they may well be using 40:1 still....but not in the UK'

 

'so how do I know to measure 50:1 ratio correctly?'

 

'....here's a measuring bottle, and this is how you do it. £4.99 please'

 

Spud, I am sure you can relate to that. 🤣

 

 

 

[Macpherson]

Tuppence worth.. folk these days have no idea how to treat any mechanical device and because they're mostly uneducated in anything to do with the things around them in everyday life let alone an IC engine, they break things all the time due to complete ignorance.

 

Personally, making sure the fuel is correct is equally as important warming an engine up properly prior to thrashing the tits oot of it, very few understand the importance of this simple action,  imo.

 

[Echo]

4 hours ago, Stubby said:

So what ratio mix do you use , just curious as I would not use anything other than 50:1 . 

After looking at the results of engine tear downs by very experienced mechanics

after using different Mix Ratios,

it was more than obvious 50:1 left them way to dry in the bottom end.

I asked what the OP was doing with his saw, if milling, then he was just looking for

trouble at 50:1.

As far as am concerned, 50:1 was used to get these engines through the emission tests,

and a manufacturer is very unlikely to state use 40:1 for example.

 

Someone said earlier, that there was no way to get more oil into an engine than

what you mix it at in the can, not true, run it richer, means more petrol but also means more oil going through the engine.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Echo

[john87]

2 hours ago, Echo said:

As far as am concerned, 50:1 was used to get these engines through the emission tests

Yep... Same as car oil is now shit [which is why it will wreck your motorbike] and lots of makers or various stuff tell you NOT to use motorboat oil which the motorboat makers will tell you is fine..

 

Having said that, i just use whatever the makers tell me to use, as i just rely on the fact that they know better than me.. [and the oil makers]

 

john