Day rates: why so cagey?

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Dendrologen said:

I like it! I am definitely too soft.  Last time I had that convo, I said "oh, err, well I'm new to the self employed game, happy to work for less". Guy ended up giving me more than we agreed at the end of the day, as he said it was not enough... 😅

Sounds like you are as bad as I was, made far more money working for someone with enough acumen to price jobs profitably.

[Mick Dempsey]

6 hours ago, Dendrologen said:

Why are people so cagey about their day rates? Surely if we were open,  it would reduce the variability? Also, why do employers try to force people down on their rates? They shouldn't be calling the shots.  You just invoice the client for that person's rate.  If it's extortionate, fair enough to question, but in my opinion, we shouldn't be haggling subbies down, so we can charge a higher rate for them and skim a bit off the top. If you've worked out your overheads right, you add them to your price for the job and whatever you need to make a bit of profit. Honesty is the best policy imo. It's been difficult for me to set a rate and it seems I can charge anything from £150 to over £200 a day in Devon. £150 ain't enough to run a business, pay into a pension, cover sick days,  holiday etc. Someone please tell me what you gain from the lack of openness?

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

5 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

Well my point was that as a self employed worker you need to set yourself on the position you want to be in.

 

As for the people telling you you’re too steep, they are either not charging enough themselves to be able to afford you, or they are just chancers. More often than not the latter 

There is a third option….

[Steve Bullman]

Just now, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

There is a third option….

They’re a tight arse?

[Steve Bullman]

Just now, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

There is a third option….

Or a fourth….you’re simply not worth what you’re asking 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

Or a fourth….you’re simply not worth what you’re asking 

That’s the one. 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

5 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

Typical conversation between me and a new client (when climbing)

 

client: how much? That’s too expensive!

 

me: have me in for the day, if you’re not happy with my rate at the end of the day then pay me what you think I’m worth, we’ll shake hands and I’ll go on my way with no hard feelings.

 

 

That’s not unreasonable - and a conversation I would happily have - apart from the pay what you want part. 
 

it’d be pay for a day at the price I set and if you ain’t happy we won’t do any more rather than pay what you want. What communist, new age hippy shit is that? Madness, I set the rates, they are nobody’s business but my own and the person that’s paying them.  

[5thelement]

This used to boil my piss when I was hand cutting in the UK. 
I would meet up with a tweed wearing fatso with ruddy cheeks, who would show me round the estate and point at the 100 or so marked Oak trees that needed felling.

He would then tell me how much he was prepared to pay me, like he was my employer and I had no say in the matter.

Hang on a minute, I am my own boss, I will tell YOU what I am prepared to fell and process the trees for, if you don’t agree the price and put it in writing, the chainsaw doesn’t start.

Edited September 30, 2022 by 5thelement

[Dendrologen]

34 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

That’s not unreasonable - and a conversation I would happily have - apart from the pay what you want part. 
 

it’d be pay for a day at the price I set and if you ain’t happy we won’t do any more rather than pay what you want. What communist, new age hippy shit is that? Madness, I set the rates, they are nobody’s business but my own and the person that’s paying them.  

I'm with you there. I had actually read Steve's post that way without realising that detail! Try me for the rate I set and if you're not happy, we never have to cross paths again!

[JLA1990]

5 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

This used to boil my piss when I was hand cutting in the UK. 
I would meet up with a tweed wearing fatso with ruddy cheeks, who would show me round the estate and point at the 100 or so marked Oak trees that needed felling.

He would then tell me how much he was prepared to pay me, like he was my employer and I had no say in the matter.

Hang in a minute, I am my own boss, I will tell YOU what I am prepared to fell and process the trees for, if you don’t agree the price and put it in writing, the chainsaw doesn’t start.

You go girlfriend