Red diesel

[Redwood27]

Hi

    Anybody still using red diesel. £150 to fill a bandit xp12 on white... How's affecting the industry

[andy ellis]

yes absolutely ,we come under horticulture which is exempt i believe?

[Dave Alviti]

It's a mess and still not 100% clear in my opinion, Farmers weeklys interpretation is that arb isn't classed as horticulture so isn't exempt, and then I've pulled this from the bali website (i've added notes in italic) 

 

- Commercial tree works
The definition of forestry issued by HM Revenue and Customs refers to the upkeep and management of forests including the growing and harvesting of timber and other forestry products.  Management of trees not in a woodland (i.e. street trees or amenity trees) is therefore not forestry and machinery used for this purpose cannot use red diesel.  

 

(but also states that you can use red for "cutting hedges or trees bordering public roads or bordering verges which border public roads")

 

- Professional garden maintenance
Based on the definition of horticulture issued by HM Revenue and Customs, professional cultivation and management of domestic gardens is regarded as horticulture and therefore machinery used for this purpose is permitted to use red diesel.  Permitted tasks include maintenance of vegetable plots, flower beds, trees, shrubberies and lawns, as well as harvesting flowers, fruits and vegetables, and treating and enriching the soil and controlling weeds and pests.    

 

- Professional tree works in a garden
Based on the definition of horticulture issued by HM Revenue and Customs, management of trees and shrubberies within domestic gardens is horticulture, and therefore machinery used for this purpose (for example wood chippers) are permitted to use red diesel. 

 

My take at the moment is that we are fine to carry on using red in our hire chippers and stump grinders, our diggers we're switching onto white as could be used for construction and the robocuts we'll carry on using red as there is another exemption "“Mowing machines may use red diesel as long as it is a complete vehicle, whether pedestrian-operated or ‘ride-on’, with grass cutting machinery built in.” might be a bit thin but we'll go with that untill told otherwise. 

 

Even the arb association can't make sense of it :

 

 

"CHANGES TO RED DIESEL USAGE, APRIL 2022

Author:  John Parker

  02/02/2022

Last Updated:  17/02/2022

John Parker, January 2022

BACKGROUND

In 2021 the government announced that it would be removing the entitlement to use red diesel from most sectors. The change will come into effect on April 1st 2022.

Many of our members will be wondering how this change will affect them. Unfortunately, arboriculture is not actually mentioned in the new regulations but the Association hopes that this briefing note will help clarify the situation.

It is recommended that you also consult the information which the government – through HM Revenue & Customs – has produced, available here: www.gov.uk/guidance/fuels-for-use-in-vehicles-excise-notice-75

EXEMPTIONS

Certain exemptions apply to agriculture, horticulture and forestry in relation to the use of red diesel after April 1st 2022. HM Revenue & Customs applies the following definitions to these sectors:

Agriculture – the science and art of cultivating the soil, growing and gathering in crops, and rearing of livestock.

Horticulture – the science and art of cultivating or managing gardens, including the growing of flowers, fruits and vegetables.

Forestry – the science and art of forming and cultivating forests and the management of growing timber.

The government clearly states here that arboriculture does not form part of either agriculture or forestry, which we obviously agree with. However, there is some potential confusion around what is included within horticulture. Elsewhere in the government guidance, the definition of what is included with horticulture is expanded as follows:

In our view, horticulture is the cultivation and management of gardens (including vegetable plots, allotments and market gardens, but also flowerbeds, trees, shrubberies and ornamental lawns in public parks). By cultivation and management, we mean growing and tending flowers, lawns, shrubs and trees, and harvesting flowers, fruits and vegetables for food (or animal fodder) and for ornament, as well as treating and enriching the soil and controlling weeds and pests. But, we do not regard as horticulture the landscaping and maintenance of grassy recreational areas, such as playing fields and golf courses, or the grassed areas of parks that are made available for walks, picnics and general recreation.

SUMMARY

The overall picture is somewhat confused. The implication from the government guidance is that when engaged in certain commercial tree work activities – such as managing trees alongside transport infrastructure or in housing estates, schools or churchyards (to name but a few) then arboriculture is not exempt from the new legislative changes. However, when undertaking tree work in a domestic garden or public park, and when commercially producing trees ‘for ornament’, then these operations are exempt from the restrictions on the use of red diesel.

The Association intends to seek clarification about the use of red diesel from government, and will be writing to our Member of Parliament and the relevant ministers. Further updates will be posted on our website as and when we have them.

In the meantime we recommend that all of our members who might be affected by this change read and become familiar with the government guidance and ensure that you are prepared for the rule changes to come into effect on April 1st 2022."

 

 

Would be interested on anyone else's take as I've gone full circle 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

46 minutes ago, Dave Alviti said:

It's a mess and still not 100% clear in my opinion, Farmers weeklys interpretation is that arb isn't classed as horticulture so isn't exempt, and then I've pulled this from the bali website (i've added notes in italic) 

 

- Commercial tree works
The definition of forestry issued by HM Revenue and Customs refers to the upkeep and management of forests including the growing and harvesting of timber and other forestry products.  Management of trees not in a woodland (i.e. street trees or amenity trees) is therefore not forestry and machinery used for this purpose cannot use red diesel.  

 

(but also states that you can use red for "cutting hedges or trees bordering public roads or bordering verges which border public roads")

 

- Professional garden maintenance
Based on the definition of horticulture issued by HM Revenue and Customs, professional cultivation and management of domestic gardens is regarded as horticulture and therefore machinery used for this purpose is permitted to use red diesel.  Permitted tasks include maintenance of vegetable plots, flower beds, trees, shrubberies and lawns, as well as harvesting flowers, fruits and vegetables, and treating and enriching the soil and controlling weeds and pests.    

 

- Professional tree works in a garden
Based on the definition of horticulture issued by HM Revenue and Customs, management of trees and shrubberies within domestic gardens is horticulture, and therefore machinery used for this purpose (for example wood chippers) are permitted to use red diesel. 

 

My take at the moment is that we are fine to carry on using red in our hire chippers and stump grinders, our diggers we're switching onto white as could be used for construction and the robocuts we'll carry on using red as there is another exemption "“Mowing machines may use red diesel as long as it is a complete vehicle, whether pedestrian-operated or ‘ride-on’, with grass cutting machinery built in.” might be a bit thin but we'll go with that untill told otherwise. 

 

Even the arb association can't make sense of it :

 

 

"CHANGES TO RED DIESEL USAGE, APRIL 2022

Author:  John Parker

  02/02/2022

Last Updated:  17/02/2022

John Parker, January 2022

BACKGROUND

In 2021 the government announced that it would be removing the entitlement to use red diesel from most sectors. The change will come into effect on April 1st 2022.

Many of our members will be wondering how this change will affect them. Unfortunately, arboriculture is not actually mentioned in the new regulations but the Association hopes that this briefing note will help clarify the situation.

It is recommended that you also consult the information which the government – through HM Revenue & Customs – has produced, available here: www.gov.uk/guidance/fuels-for-use-in-vehicles-excise-notice-75

EXEMPTIONS

Certain exemptions apply to agriculture, horticulture and forestry in relation to the use of red diesel after April 1st 2022. HM Revenue & Customs applies the following definitions to these sectors:

Agriculture – the science and art of cultivating the soil, growing and gathering in crops, and rearing of livestock.

Horticulture – the science and art of cultivating or managing gardens, including the growing of flowers, fruits and vegetables.

Forestry – the science and art of forming and cultivating forests and the management of growing timber.

The government clearly states here that arboriculture does not form part of either agriculture or forestry, which we obviously agree with. However, there is some potential confusion around what is included within horticulture. Elsewhere in the government guidance, the definition of what is included with horticulture is expanded as follows:

In our view, horticulture is the cultivation and management of gardens (including vegetable plots, allotments and market gardens, but also flowerbeds, trees, shrubberies and ornamental lawns in public parks). By cultivation and management, we mean growing and tending flowers, lawns, shrubs and trees, and harvesting flowers, fruits and vegetables for food (or animal fodder) and for ornament, as well as treating and enriching the soil and controlling weeds and pests. But, we do not regard as horticulture the landscaping and maintenance of grassy recreational areas, such as playing fields and golf courses, or the grassed areas of parks that are made available for walks, picnics and general recreation.

SUMMARY

The overall picture is somewhat confused. The implication from the government guidance is that when engaged in certain commercial tree work activities – such as managing trees alongside transport infrastructure or in housing estates, schools or churchyards (to name but a few) then arboriculture is not exempt from the new legislative changes. However, when undertaking tree work in a domestic garden or public park, and when commercially producing trees ‘for ornament’, then these operations are exempt from the restrictions on the use of red diesel.

The Association intends to seek clarification about the use of red diesel from government, and will be writing to our Member of Parliament and the relevant ministers. Further updates will be posted on our website as and when we have them.

In the meantime we recommend that all of our members who might be affected by this change read and become familiar with the government guidance and ensure that you are prepared for the rule changes to come into effect on April 1st 2022."

 

 

Would be interested on anyone else's take as I've gone full circle 

The (all powerful) NFU have done what they consistently do - wielded their unmatched power and influence over (so called) government policy to the complete advantage of their own and bollox to everyone else. 
 

Of course it’s their gift to do exactly that and they are very good at it. 
 

The expertise of the NFU also casts the inadequacy of most other lobbying organisations more acutely into the spotlight....

[difflock]

Ya boo sucks to you  .  .  .

[Woodworks]

25 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

The (all powerful) NFU have done what they consistently do - wielded their unmatched power and influence over (so called) government policy to the complete advantage of their own and bollox to everyone else. 
 

Of course it’s their gift to do exactly that and they are very good at it. 
 

The expertise of the NFU also casts the inadequacy of most other lobbying organisations more acutely into the spotlight....

So the NFU have campaigned on behalf of their members?

 

Thats a shocker 😂

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just now, Woodworks said:

So the NFU have campaigned on behalf of their members?

 

Thats a shocker 😂

They have campaigned on behalf of their members in order to secure the sort of policy, financial and tax advantages that are the exclusive privilege of their members and bollox to the rest.....

 

[Woodworks]

4 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

They have campaigned on behalf of their members in order to secure the sort of policy, financial and tax advantages that are the exclusive privilege of their members and bollox to the rest.....

 

What organisations campaign for things outside of their remit? 

[AHPP]

National Dolescum Union (NDU). It's right next door on the keyboard.

[scbk]

When you think about it, I'm surprised that construction is excluded from red diesel, you would think the big housebuilders and property developers would have plenty of old chums in parliament?!