The financial case for electric vehicles

[Baldbloke]

5 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

We're looking at a panel array plus battery box system, so some gain will still be had. Also, the slightly longer days (we're on the same latitude as Aviemore) will mean that the panels will be producing before we get up and after we're back home through summer. There is about 50% more sunshine May-September compared to the UK, so efficiency should be good. 

 

You can also sell excess kw to the grid (and then buy it back when you need it), but I've not yet had a chance to discuss the economics of this with Svea Solar. We've got a chap coming on Thursday to inspect the house ahead of quoting for the installation, so I can ask him then.

That sounds good on the electric incentives. Ours works slightly different in that we get a base payment for total generation and an additional smaller deemed export payment. On top of that we get paid for the units EVEN IF we use them in the house. We too are slightly north of Aviemore here, and while the summer days are long the winter days are correspondingly short and dark so your generation will be good in the summer and maybe mediocre in the winter.

[Big J]

1 minute ago, Baldbloke said:

That sounds good on the electric incentives. Ours works slightly different in that we get a base payment for total generation and an additional smaller deemed export payment. On top of that we get paid for the units EVEN IF we use them in the house. We too are slightly north of Aviemore here, and while the summer days are long the winter days are correspondingly short and dark so your generation will be good in the summer and maybe mediocre in the winter.

 

The incentives in Sweden for green tech installation aren't that generous now, but there is about 15% off the installation of a solar panel array. 

 

I'm not certain how it compares to the UK, but with the green subsidy, a 13kw array with battery and car charger is about £18k. The battery is about £4k of that, and you can get 50% of that back from the government, but it comes off your tax bill. You have to earn to save it, so to speak. 

 

I'm not aware of any kind of feed in tariff in Sweden. 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

50k a year isn't difficult to do between two people.

Holy cow! That’s madness!!

 

My 2015 transit custom has 30k and my 2016 Hilux has very similar..... 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Having read the thread, I was wondering why you hadn’t touched upon using the EV battery bank as your domestic battery bank for evenings thus saving having 2 battery banks. 
 

I understand now you’ve indicated your mileage. 
 

For me to transfer over to EV it would need to be on the basis that the car was the domestic night time battery bank. 

[Canal Navvy]

20 hours ago, Big J said:

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 this week called 'Sliced bread' (as in the best thing since...) where they explore products/services that are supposed to be all that. 

 

Anyway, it was electric vehicles this week. Whether you agree with the environmental credentials or not, the one thing that came through was that they are fundamentally cheaper to own and run unless you do very low mileage. 

 

So that got my cogs turning, costing our vehicle options for us when we relocate in July. Without boring you all with the details (though I can, on request ), I did the calculations on us being a two vehicle household, comparing our current vehicles (2007 VW transporter, and anticipated 2009 2l TDI A6 estate) with a couple of MG ZS EVs on a 3 year lease. Both scenarios would involve me charging mileage to my business for commercial use of private vehicles.

 

In short, the total cost for 36k miles in the diesel vehicles including servicing and repair, depreciation and fuel and insurance is £14,800. The total cost of leasing the electric vehicles for the same distance is £9200. 

 

This assumes current diesel prices (a touch higher than the UK at £1.95/l) and current electricity prices (much lower than the UK, with a 3 year fixed rate about £0.14/kwh). 

 

Now I appreciate that I'm working it out for my personal situation and that with electricity and electric vehicles being cheaper in Sweden, there is a degree of bias, but the cost saving is really quite large, especially considering that there is £10k tied up in the diesel vehicles which would be liberated if they were sold. 

 

Another consideration is that when we install solar (which is our intention), the electricity effectively becomes free for most of the year. And the £10k liberated from the sale of the diesel vehicles pays for 60% of the 12kw solar system with battery backup and car chargers. Generating our own electricity would bring the annual cost of running the EVs down to £7700, which is a cost saving of £7100 over diesel.

 

I suppose the reason for this post is to perhaps share my opinion that I think that the financial case is now very strongly made for electric vehicles, especially if you can charge from your own generated electricity. This was the conclusion of the Radio 4 programme too.

I was not totally convinced of the test, petrol car filled and returned to the same spot for refill (pretty standard practice), EV have a squint at what it's showing and take it back for another squint. Would have been much happier if the producers had used a site where both vehicles could have had consumption measured to weights and measures standards 🤔 

[scbk]

50k miles a year, I do about 4k in the van and 2-3k a year in the truck, and it feels like I'm always driving at that!

 

Also do about 1k miles a year on a converted electric bike, costs a few pence to recharge, handy for getting about locally.

[scbk]

Average speed on the truck computer vs average speed on bike computer 

[Big J]

7 hours ago, scbk said:

50k miles a year, I do about 4k in the van and 2-3k a year in the truck, and it feels like I'm always driving at that!

 

Also do about 1k miles a year on a converted electric bike, costs a few pence to recharge, handy for getting about locally.

 

6 hours ago, scbk said:

Average speed on the truck computer vs average speed on bike computer 

 

I think I do about 27k myself on average, my wife about 23k. I did 43k in my works van from May 2019 to November 2021, but that included all the lockdowns, and mileage was much reduced for a while. 

 

I quite like driving really, if I'm being honest. I drive differently depending on who I'm driving with, or the roads I'm driving on. Sometimes I like to slipstream lorries and coaches to see how high I can push the indicated mpg (72.4mpg is the best I've had in the 2013 Octavia Scout, on 107 miles up the M5) and other times I drive like a teenager (like yesterday on the way up to Dulverton for a site visit by myself in my wife's remapped (not by us) Audi A2). I'm in the process of doing my HGV class 1 licence, and I expect I'll enjoy that too. I just don't really like driving in the UK as the traffic can comprehensively remove your will to live.

 

For reference, my long term average speeds in Scotland were 37mph and in Devon 31mph.

[Dan Maynard]

21 hours ago, Baldbloke said:

Trouble is we'd often need two cars as we both work, and even with our 25 Kw wind turbine generation providing free charging I cannot yet see the sums adding up in the UK. And that's with the present fuel prices.

 

Over 3 years, all approximate. Old Diesel Tiguans.

36,000 miles at 40/mpg = 900 imperial gallons = 4091 litres @ £1.75 = £7159.25 X 2 cars = £14318

Depreciation on 2 VW Tiguans 2012 & 2015 = Actually worth more than when they were bought, but say minus £3000. 

Maintenance X6 self services including X1 timing belt/water pump X 2 sets of discs and pads £500

Set of tyres £400 X2 = £800.

Road tax X6@ £160 = £960

£19,578 to run 2 cars for 3 years.

 

MG Motor UK Zs Electric Hatchback115kW SE EV Long Range 73kWh 5 Doors Auto

For 3 year lease on 12,000 miles a year, each car would cost £342/month X 36 = £12312 X2 = £ 24,624 + X2 initial payments of £3077. £24624 + £6154 = £30778. 

 

I didn't include insurance although that too is a negative as leccy cars cost more to insure.

 

Looks like getting on for double the cost as well as the hassle of looking for chargers and delays on longer trips. You'd also have no residual car values by plumping for the electric vehicles. 

So even though we are lucky enough to have a cheap or free source of electric I personally can't justify the jump and inconvenience of electric cars, and by the time I could they'll probably have changed the tax incentives.

 

So in round numbers, £20k to run 10 year old cars and £30k to run brand new ones?

 

To what extent are these car prices still subsidised? We were thinking of what to do with wife's 10 year old Yaris a couple of years ago, the comparable EV were around £30k to buy. Yaris stayed.

 

[Steve Bullman]

Are you considering the mg John? We looked at one but it probably had one of the lowest ranges. That was nearly 3 years ago now though