Walker killed by cattle....

[Billhook]

On 14/02/2022 at 15:41, openspaceman said:

You should also lodge a statement with the highway authority that you do not dedicate the path for public use and renew it every few years.

The problem is that there is no real trespass law in the UK, and people can be on anybody's land, even in your own garden , and if they are not causing actual physical damage or nuisance which can be proven in a court, there is not much you can do about it.  With the police not even bothering to come out to burglaries any more, there is not much hope with trying to prosecute trespass

[Billhook]

On 15/02/2022 at 00:13, john87 said:

Whoever told you that does not have a clue!! Once a footpath, always a footpath. The test is whether it is on the local councils definitive map. If it is, it is a footpath and it would be illegal to try to block it..

 

john..

No, in my case it was never a public footpath, just a private path that I allowed a few people in the village to use in return for them reporting any interesting wildlife or people acting with bad intent.

Newcomers to the village who saw others using the path then tried to claim it was now public because it had been used  for over ten years, but they had no evidence of this.

[Bob_z_l]

56 minutes ago, Billhook said:

The problem is that there is no real trespass law in the UK, and people can be on anybody's land, even in your own garden , and if they are not causing actual physical damage or nuisance which can be proven in a court, there is not much you can do about it.  With the police not even bothering to come out to burglaries any more, there is not much hope with trying to prosecute trespass

And god forbid they injure themselves because you'll be liable. It's madness and I wish there was a solution. 
Fed up with picnickers and right to roamers. 

[difflock]

That is where landowners are screwed over, by the general public or neighbours, the landowner is painted as a selfish greedy bastard, if they do not allow others to use their lands, you know, just temporiarily, for a shortcut, for vehicle access, or to park a spare car etc etc, cos you got so much of it, then after a few years they claim squatters rights without a qualm.

Edited February 16, 2022 by difflock

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Billhook said:

The problem is that there is no real trespass law in the UK, and people can be on anybody's land, even in your own garden , and if they are not causing actual physical damage or nuisance which can be proven in a court, there is not much you can do about it.  With the police not even bothering to come out to burglaries any more, there is not much hope with trying to prosecute trespass

Well you miss my point in that lodging a letter with the HA that you are not dedicating a path for public use  protects the land from a claim that a permissive path is a PRoW.

 

Anyway the fact that trespass is currently a civil offence (and injunctions can be had in the civil court to abate a nuisance from individuals) means that a blocked PRoW can be circumnavigated and is a good thing IMO even though this is slated to be changed in the new police act.

[Sutton]

5 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Well you miss my point in that lodging a letter with the HA that you are not dedicating a path for public use  protects the land from a claim that a permissive path is a PRoW.

 

Anyway the fact that trespass is currently a civil offence (and injunctions can be had in the civil court to abate a nuisance from individuals) means that a blocked PRoW can be circumnavigated and is a good thing IMO even though this is slated to be changed in the new police act.

I've put temp fencing & hurdles up for lambing time so dog walkers etc do round a footpath. I've seen Highways Act 1980/1990. What's this new police act?

[Billhook]

23 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Well you miss my point in that lodging a letter with the HA that you are not dedicating a path for public use  protects the land from a claim that a permissive path is a PRoW.

 

Anyway the fact that trespass is currently a civil offence (and injunctions can be had in the civil court to abate a nuisance from individuals) means that a blocked PRoW can be circumnavigated and is a good thing IMO even though this is slated to be changed in the new police act.

Well you are correct that I should lodge a letter because of the state of the law, but where does all this stupidity stop.  What do people not under about a big notice that says “Private Land, no public right of way” at either end of the path?

Must we eventually put these notices in our gardens and keep writing to authorities to say these places are private and not public?  There must be an assumption of privacy for peoples homes and property without having to resort to these measures.

My older tractors on the farm have no locks.  Can someone just go on them because I have not placed a notice saying private property on them and I have not sent a letter to the DVLA?

[openspaceman]

12 minutes ago, Billhook said:

Well you are correct that I should lodge a letter because of the state of the law, but where does all this stupidity stop.  What do people not under about a big notice that says “Private Land, no public right of way” at either end of the path?

Must we eventually put these notices in our gardens and keep writing to authorities to say these places are private and not public?  There must be an assumption of privacy for peoples homes and property without having to resort to these measures.

My older tractors on the farm have no locks.  Can someone just go on them because I have not placed a notice saying private property on them and I have not sent a letter to the DVLA?

That's an entirely different matter and if you are one of those people that believe putting notices up deters thieves you are the one with the problem. I was giving you advice on managing a permissive right of way horse to water etc.

[Sutton]

Anyone remember the public info broadcasts in 1970s about countryside code such as the rubbishy cartoon characters drawn in the style of Rhubarb and Custard. I grew up in a city sized town but have spent over 25 years dealing with rural folk. The image of the angry farmer jumping up and down blowing his top off because a footpath user wouldn't close the gate is powerful. Viz's Farmer Palmer has had an adverse affect I reckon.

[openspaceman]

39 minutes ago, Sutton said:

I've put temp fencing & hurdles up for lambing time so dog walkers etc do round a footpath. I've seen Highways Act 1980/1990. What's this new police act?

There are some changes to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 and something in a new policing and sentencing act. The effect is to make protests a criminal act on private land (consider the Kinder Scout trespass that led to the public being able to access the hills would now become criminal. The thing is some of these areas which people are buying up can support public access without causing the owners who are often absent any problems. Not that I think England can support a right to roam as in Scotland and indeed I did not support the CRoW act where IMO it impinged on different rare habitats.

 

Now ostensibly one part of the act is to criminalise setting up encampments with vehicles, the side effect will be to criminalise  kipping in your car.

 

The driver is businesses that have bought into big office developments and shopping malls with their own security, because these were often built alongside public squares and roads but the land was transferred and rights extinguished, so when you walk by them you are now walking permissively.

 

The upshot is it will control protests and the police will not have any more resource to deal with travelers but private companies will be able to evict protesters. In other threads comments have been made on how Covid has increased the control the government has on the population and I think this is mostly to do with the demands of the kingmakers, the holders of assets, to restrict the general public and has become worse as assets have come under control of the super wealthy.