Woodburner...

[trigger_andy]

Big J  I am not arguing that the average open fire at 20-30% is in anyway near the highest 80% efficient stoves.
There are very different types of fireplace, just as there are very different types of wood stove.  I am not denying that the most modern and efficient wood stove with all the goodies will be the most efficient.  What I will argue is that a poorly designed wood stove fitted to a poorly designed flue will be probably outperformed by a properly built Rumford.
There are so many variables.
Variables in flue design, air control, insulation so a stove with poor features in these areas will soon be equivalent to a Rumford with good features.
 
A new very rich owner of a house nearby had some plumbing work done and the previous owner had installed a large wood stove.  This stove was built in Eastern Europe (badly) had double doors which did not seal. It looked good with polished brass handles.  Anyway the new owner asked the plumber if he wanted it, so he said yes please and took it home, but his wife said no, too big, too ugly so he gave it to me and we took it down to the log cabin.  It took three of us the lift it into position.  It never heated the cabin (25'x25') properly and took a large amount of wood to feed it.  No proper air control but I did fit an insulated flue above.  However this meant that you could put the back of your hand on the flue so none of that heat went into the room, it all went out of the chimney.
A year or two later some pleasant people came in the night in the middle of a blizzard, one climbed onto the roof and undid the lead flashing on the chimney, took the flue and the stove.  A kindly neighbour took pity and donated her heavy old stove with no glass and again double doors which wasnot much better than an open fire, but at least we could shut it up for safety in the wooden cabin.
So two examples of pathetic wood stoves and I can state that the Rumford is infinitely better than both.
 
There are other factors in the often quoted 20% versus 80% figures.  These always come from people trying to sell wood stoves
Going back to flue design and insulated flues, if the latter is fitted it surely means that a lot of heat is lost straight out of the chimney  In the case of my Rumford there is a clay flue surrounded by brickwork and any heat lost up the chimney goes into this heat sink and can be felt upstairs in the bedrooms.  This heat transfer does not seem to be taken into account during "scientific" stove tests.
This man has quite a good video on heat loss with a stove and his improvements
 
But heat efficiency aside, when people come into our living room for a Christmas drink and see the Rumford going, they are immediately drawn to it, conversation flows easily with the drinks and this does not happen with our wood burners in the same way.  They may comment on the Aduro and say how it looks good but there is something about an open flame.
Perhaps by opening the doors of the stove it would be similar but it is not the same.

With all that in mind where is the evidence to back up your claims?

[Billhook]

I will strap you in a chair on the opposite wall and time how long you can stand it!

But more seriously i have and infra red temperature gun like the guy in the video and could take a series of readings from the fire to the brickwork to the flue and to the chimney

The Aduro  shares the same chimney so there would be a very good comparison .

I will conduct an experiment over Christmas and be prepared to eat humble pie or humble Christmas pudding!

[john87]

I have never understood why anyone would want an insulated flue, what is the point of that, making the sky hotter??

 

The more heat that going into the brickwork the better, i want the flue gasses to be cold when they come out the top so as all the heat will have been transferred to the house.

 

john..

[Stubby]

1 hour ago, john87 said:

I have never understood why anyone would want an insulated flue, what is the point of that, making the sky hotter??

 

 

 

john..

It lessens the effect of corosive condensation and increases the draw .

[john87]

8 minutes ago, Stubby said:

It lessens the effect of corosive condensation and increases the draw .

Ah, yes, good thinking.. My house no trouble with draw, so i will not bother or need one of them liner things, rather have warm walls!!

[Mick Dempsey]

14 hours ago, Big J said:

This is like a convention of flat earthers. Constantly trying to find legitimacy in a laughable concept. 

 

Justify the open fire which ever way you like - it smells nice, I like the crackles, the missus won't take her clothes off infront of a stove....

 

Just please don't try to make any claims about efficiency being even remotely comparable.

You’re just a shill for Big Woodstove.

 

[Stubby]

36 minutes ago, john87 said:

Ah, yes, good thinking.. My house no trouble with draw, so i will not bother or need one of them liner things, rather have warm walls!!

Mine had ( still has ) a 7.5" clay liner . A 6" SS liner fits snugly up inside it and the stove is attartched to that . When its been on a few hours the chimny breast in the loft gets warm . So no problem heating the wall here either .

[john87]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

Mine had ( still has ) a 7.5" clay liner . A 6" SS liner fits snugly up inside it and the stove is attartched to that . When its been on a few hours the chimny breast in the loft gets warm . So no problem heating the wall here either .

That is good to know!! I thought the brickwork would stay stoney cold as it were!!

 

john..

[Billhook]

16 minutes ago, john87 said:

That is good to know!! I thought the brickwork would stay stoney cold as it were!!

 

john..

There are occasions particularly on a North facing wall where the chimney has been built on the outside, that it will just not draw very well in cold weather.

This is especially bad when starting and there may be a down draught which fills the room with smoke.  An insulated flue would be the answer in most cases 

[Mick Dempsey]

3 hours ago, Billhook said:

There are occasions particularly on a North facing wall where the chimney has been built on the outside, that it will just not draw very well in cold weather.

This is especially bad when starting and there may be a down draught which fills the room with smoke.  An insulated flue would be the answer in most cases 

That explains an issue I had a few years back.