Anyone interested in removing this oak?

[Paddy1000111]

8 hours ago, LK12 said:

 

Are you comparing the skill of a surgeon who can make lifechanging changes to someones body and quality of life to a group of guys that chop down trees?

 

Surely you wouldn't be so thick and low IQ... but nothing surprises me

Depending on the skill of the tree surgeon they can make life-changing changes to someone's body too. Or their own. 

 

I had this issue the other day, I went to quote for a removal. Good access, 2 man job for a day. I quoted £360 which I think is unbelievably cheap. They made it out like I was ripping them off (they still took my quote after getting 3 others)

I really think people have no idea about the cost of running a business. People see what they get on their paycheque for a days work and compare it. Let's look at that surgeon for example, let's say he gets £200 a day for numbers sake. Now, you aren't paying him for the work as it's on the NHS but if you did, would you expect to pay £200 for a days surgery or would you expect thousands? All the kit, the drugs, the support staff, facility, cleaning etc. 

 

I think people forget that out of the money we charge we also have to pay tax, groundies, equipment costs (which could be up in the 6 figure range), lolered inspections, insurance, fuel and then if one thing gets broken (like the tail light on my van the other day) the jobs f***** and you make no money. 

[gary112]

8 hours ago, LK12 said:

 

Are you comparing the skill of a surgeon who can make lifechanging changes to someones body and quality of life to a group of guys that chop down trees?

 

Surely you wouldn't be so thick and low IQ... but nothing surprises me

This is quite simple,you,ve got a bee in your bonnet about the prices that were being suggested on here to take down your tree,you got the tree took down for half that price so i guess your feeling quite pleased with yourself for that,so you probably have no need to be trolling the forum now, so best thing is to leave,see ya👍

[Khriss]

12 hours ago, LK12 said:

I caused quite a storm on here

You guys should have handbags not chainsaws

..... It has been mentioned... K

Edited April 26, 2021 by Khriss
God Paddy, that was a bit of a ' favour' price 😮

[Khriss]

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

onometry surely ?

Onanism was word you were frasping for there, Mr Stubby. K

[agg221]

12 hours ago, skyhuck said:

I think the lesson from this thread is, we all cock up, we all under price from time to time, if the punter gets enough people to quote, they will get an under bid, where someone has cocked up. £1050, for a 4 man team is cheap, IMO. And I'm in the north.

 

What surprises me is someone under biding just now, I've never been busier and am probably quoting higher, just know, than I ever have.

 

This thread really doesn't do the image of tree surgery any favours. A member of the public had a tree they wanted removed and had a perception on the price. When people put up an indicative price which was double that and the OP commented to that effect, the response was aggressive and then the thread descended into moderately homophobic abuse. A parallel has been drawn with surgeons - imagine what you would think if you were discussing a procedure with your surgeon and he called in a second opinion which degenerated into a slanging match. Not very professional. The OP has then validated his opinion by having the job done for half the indicated figure, and the response is to suggest that he had it done badly or by cowboys. This gives an impression of the trade which does not paint it in a favourable light.

 

If you want people to understand why something costs what it does, it helps to give a breakdown. With that in mind, I have quoted Skyhuck's post as it is one of the few constructive posts on this thread. I'd be interested in an assessment of the following:

 

Assume a tree work company of 4 is charging £1050/day and is running at 40% overhead. I am basing this on standard SME rates. This figure may be slightly high as a manufacturing company would have similar capital cost and higher site costs. I am making the assumption that the running costs (insurance, lighting heating, fuel etc all balance out).

 

Assume an earning year of 45wks, allowing for annual leave, public holidays and illness.

 

Assume 4 days earning, 1 day called off/maintenance etc per week.

 

That means gross labour income of £113,400. Assume the team includes a couple of early career groundies on £20k, that leaves £73.4k divided between the two experienced staff, which sounds a bit low.

 

However, there is also pricing jobs based on competition to take into account. That tree had already been dismantled - it was just the stem to chog down and cart out (plus the grinding). From the limited photos, it didn't look like there was any difficult rigging out to avoid targets. That puts it within the range of a smaller or less experienced team, so if the bigger, more experienced company with the experience to do more complex jobs wants the job, they will have to price down to it - if Michelangelo had offered a service emulsioning your ceiling at the weekends, he could not have charged the rate as for painting the Sistine chapel.

 

It sounds like a it was a fairly early finish. That suggests a team of 3 could have done it. The same figures as above for a team of 3 would see £93.4k divided between the two experienced staff which sounds quite reasonable.

 

Skyhuck - would you care to comment on my wet finger estimated figures?

Alec

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by agg221

[Khriss]

Good riposte Agg,  please dont mention wet fingers at this juncture though 😳 K

[Clutchy]

22 minutes ago, agg221 said:

 

This thread really doesn't do the image of tree surgery any favours. A member of the public had a tree they wanted removed and had a perception on the price. When people put up an indicative price which was double that and the OP commented to that effect, the response was aggressive and then the thread descended into moderately homophobic abuse. A parallel has been drawn with surgeons - imagine what you would think if you were discussing a procedure with your surgeon and he called in a second opinion which degenerated into a slanging match. Not very professional. The OP has then validated his opinion by having the job done for half the indicated figure, and the response is to suggest that he had it done badly or by cowboys. This gives an impression of the trade which does not paint it in a favourable light.

 

If you want people to understand why something costs what it does, it helps to give a breakdown. With that in mind, I have quoted Skyhuck's post as it is one of the few constructive posts on this thread. I'd be interested in an assessment of the following:

 

Assume a tree work company of 4 is charging £1050/day and is running at 40% overhead. I am basing this on standard SME rates. This figure may be slightly high as a manufacturing company would have similar capital cost and higher site costs. I am making the assumption that the running costs (insurance, lighting heating, fuel etc all balance out).

 

Assume an earning year of 45wks, allowing for annual leave, public holidays and illness.

 

Assume 4 days earning, 1 day called off/maintenance etc per week.

 

That means gross labour income of £113,400. Assume the team includes a couple of early career groundies on £20k, that leaves £73.4k divided between the two experienced staff, which sounds a bit low.

 

However, there is also pricing jobs based on competition to take into account. That tree had already been dismantled - it was just the stem to chog down and cart out (plus the grinding). From the limited photos, it didn't look like there was any difficult rigging out to avoid targets. That puts it within the range of a smaller or less experienced team, so if the bigger, more experienced company with the experience to do more complex jobs wants the job, they will have to price down to it - if Michelangelo had offered a service emulsioning your ceiling at the weekends, he could not have charged the rate as for painting the Sistine chapel.

 

It sounds like a it was a fairly early finish. That suggests a team of 3 could have done it. The same figures as above for a team of 3 would see £93.4k divided between the two experienced staff which sounds quite reasonable.

 

Skyhuck - would you care to comment on my wet finger estimated figures?

Alec

 

 

You forgot profit... unless you're running a charity of course? 

 

113k inc vat (94k ex) a year for a 2 or 3 man team is terrible. 

 

If you're only making that in london or greater London you won't be around for long. 

 

I'd be losing 1-2k a month on our 3 man team with those figures. 

 

Too many people are in this game to break even... how many other companies/industries run like that.

[agg221]

1 minute ago, Clutchy said:

You forgot profit... unless you're running a charity of course? 

 

113k inc vat (94k ex) a year for a 2 or 3 man team is terrible. 

 

If you're only making that in london or greater London you won't be around for long. 

 

I'd be losing 1-2k a month on our 3 man team with those figures. 

 

Too many people are in this game to break even... how many other companies/industries run like that.

You have spotted that these are only the labour component? I have already allowed for other costs within the overhead.

 

If you are saying that £113k is insufficient for the wages for 2 people, that suggests that your people are extremely well paid?

 

Alec

[Clutchy]

14 minutes ago, agg221 said:

You have spotted that these are only the labour component? I have already allowed for other costs within the overhead.

 

If you are saying that £113k is insufficient for the wages for 2 people, that suggests that your people are extremely well paid?

 

Alec

Sorry I misunderstood, 113k between 2 is pretty decent. 

 

Still, £1,050 inc vat for a 4 man team isn't a business. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Clutchy

[LK12]

Not all four guys were there the whole time, at times one or two came and went to what I assume were other jobs. There might have even been 5 at one point.

 

I imagine the job could of been done much quicker if they wanted to but it was a nice sunny day and they were lounging around a bit and not in a major rush.

 

I imagine they gross much more than the figures mentioned here.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by LK12