Aspen 40:1 mix

[Paddy1000111]

I'm just going to stick to what I'm doing. I know guys who do utility work and really use and abuse their saws cutting brash back etc. They have to provide their own ground/climbing saws but they get provided everything else. They run theirs on 40:1 without a problem as they have a tonne of saws and the guys who just chuck in one of those pre-measure pouches had more issues than the guys who ran slightly more oil. As well as the reasons I gave earlier the new saws are also meant to use 20% less fuel than older models with 2-MIX and the husky equivalent. Engines are now tighter, lighter, more powerful and higher revving than anything before, add into that supplying 20% less lubrication it all, to me anyway, seems a good reason to run slightly more oil. Not much has changed either tech wise, a bearing is still a bearing, a piston is still a piston. The tolerances may be tighter but there's nothing new. If you really want a bearing to last you run it in an oil bath or with a supply of high viscosity, high pressure grease, you don't give it a light spray of oil. I'm just going to stick with it, if the worst thing that happens is I have to brush a spark plug off occasionally (I've not had to yet) then so be it.

[doobin]

I've only ever had one engine sieze up, and that was an FS450 with seven full years commercial work. I've always filled everything on Stihl red, to just over the line of the measuring gauge. Probably about 45:1 ?

 

I'm with Paddy on this. It can't hurt. I've never noticed any excess smoking. Never noticed any extra cost. And never had any engine failures bar that on dozens of saws etc used commerically.

 

All the problems with modern vehicles are directly related to increased complexity for emmissions and MPG. Not to say that there haven't been major improvements- I'd never want to go back to non common rail. But we shouldn't believe everything the manufacturers tell us, because they are told to say that by the governments.

 

What's the reasoning on the new 2 mix saws needing green oil? 4 mix i know about, it was a shit system and they fail anyway. But someone on here made a convinving argument for running the new green on 2 mix saws so I bought a couple of 5 litre cans to try.

[Paddy1000111]

The differences between the oil colours HP/HP SUPER/HP ULTRA is:

 

• HP- Mineral oil- Low deposits, good lubrication
• HP Super- Semi-Synthetic- Lower deposits than HP, Better lubrication than HP
• HP Ultra- Fully-Synthetic- Minimal Deposits, perfected lubrication properties. 

To be fair to stihl, there is a difference between all 3, they aren't just marketing jargon and different packaging. 

 

[Paddy1000111]

The above pictures were from stihl, They ran seven BR600 blowers for 500+ static running. The machines ran WOT 24H a day which would simulate a years professional use. 

 

Full slideshow here- 

WWW.SLIDESERVE.COM

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STIHL Inc. Mix Oil Comparison. STIHL Inc. Mix Oil Comparison. 500+ hour static run test Seven BR 600 blowers Test results from June 2006 Machines ran at W.O.T. 24 hours around the...

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Paddy1000111]

Also, for the sake of comparison. Here's the piston on my 3 year old 261c-m. Sadly I don't have last years spark plug as it found its way to the bin but apart from a light biscuit coating (like the spark plug in the slideshow) there wasn't any actual buildup 

[bmp01]

3 hours ago, Paddy1000111 said:

If you really want a bearing to last you run it in an oil bath or with a supply of high viscosity, high pressure grease, you don't give it a light spray of oil.

Hey Paddy, no offense intended mister but this statement is not correct. Depends on the bearing you are referring to - I'll assume a ball race or rolling element bearing (as you'd never grease a shell bearing, obvs.) The killer for a ball race is heat generation, often a biproduct of skidding of the rolling element on the running surface. So you always want some load and a small film of lubricant. Grease in a ball race is for low speed applications,  oil for high speed (low speed might still be thousands of rpm for small bearings). Oil splash feed is adequate, swamping the thing isn't necessarily good, gets back to skidding of the rolling element. A small reservoir of oil for startup is good though. Best lubrication regime for a ball race at high speed is oil / air mist - adequate lubrication and good heat removal at the same time. Not entirely practical in most applications....life's a compromise.

 

[Paddy1000111]

29 minutes ago, bmp01 said:

Hey Paddy, no offense intended mister but this statement is not correct. Depends on the bearing you are referring to - I'll assume a ball race or rolling element bearing (as you'd never grease a shell bearing, obvs.) The killer for a ball race is heat generation, often a biproduct of skidding of the rolling element on the running surface. So you always want some load and a small film of lubricant. Grease in a ball race is for low speed applications,  oil for high speed (low speed might still be thousands of rpm for small bearings). Oil splash feed is adequate, swamping the thing isn't necessarily good, gets back to skidding of the rolling element. A small reservoir of oil for startup is good though. Best lubrication regime for a ball race at high speed is oil / air mist - adequate lubrication and good heat removal at the same time. Not entirely practical in most applications....life's a compromise.

 

I agree about shell bearings (Although you do put grease on them during build as oil doesn't stay in place and it prevents damage during first start but that's a different thing). Then again if you had a slow moving bushing which is the shell bearings closest relative then they are greased. But when I meant spray of oil I more meant a squirt of lubricant in a can not pressure feed systems. In the aircraft world (my previous job) the bearings on jet engines (rolling element ball bearings) were lubricated by a jet of high pressure oil which then drained down into a scavenge system, through a oil cooler and back to the oil reservoir. 

If you want a good example of bearings that are "swamped" just look at car gearboxes. The bearings are usually submerged and areas that aren't submerged are usually fed by pumps like on Land Rover R380 boxes. Another good example of swamped ball bearings are bearings in turbo chargers. High output turbos have swamped ball bearings that are pressure fed from the engine for cooling. It's like the CAT engines, c13 etc. They don't trust splash lubrication or mist lubrication so they have oil jets bolted under the piston which jet oil onto the liner and onto the piston base to give cooling and lubrication. At the end of the day, oil mist/air is probably one of the worst lubrication/cooling systems as air is a poor conductor of heat. Its the reason we use materials that trap air like down or fiberglass wool to give insulation. Liquid is the best conductor of heat which is why we cool our engines with oil and water and we don't all drive around in air cooled engined cars. Pretty much all high load/high speed bearings are pressure fed, gone are the days of having an oiler that you give 2 pumps every hour. Considering our saws now use more air and less fuel than ever before whilst working harder than ever before it makes sense to give them a little more oil. It doesn't seem to do any harm. 

 

[Stubby]

6 hours ago, Paddy1000111 said:

I'm just going to stick to what I'm doing. I know guys who do utility work and really use and abuse their saws cutting brash back etc. They have to provide their own ground/climbing saws but they get provided everything else. They run theirs on 40:1 without a problem as they have a tonne of saws and the guys who just chuck in one of those pre-measure pouches had more issues than the guys who ran slightly more oil. As well as the reasons I gave earlier the new saws are also meant to use 20% less fuel than older models with 2-MIX and the husky equivalent. Engines are now tighter, lighter, more powerful and higher revving than anything before, add into that supplying 20% less lubrication it all, to me anyway, seems a good reason to run slightly more oil. Not much has changed either tech wise, a bearing is still a bearing, a piston is still a piston. The tolerances may be tighter but there's nothing new. If you really want a bearing to last you run it in an oil bath or with a supply of high viscosity, high pressure grease, you don't give it a light spray of oil. I'm just going to stick with it, if the worst thing that happens is I have to brush a spark plug off occasionally (I've not had to yet) then so be it.

You say " not much has changed " but it has . The oil is what has changed . Red Line specify mixes up to 100:1 . They would not if they thought there was a risk .  Any way it really does not matter . You and I and everyone else will continue to do what we are happy with and thats all that matters . ?

[gary112]

6 minutes ago, Stubby said:

You say " not much has changed " but it has . The oil is what has changed . Red Line specify mixes up to 100:1 . They would not if they thought there was a risk .  Any way it really does not matter . You and I and everyone else will continue to do what we are happy with and thats all that matters . ?

Your right Stubby a hell of a lot has changed,don,t think i,d try and use the old GTX in my new Huskys nowadays,the other thing my old man did was use waste oil for the bar,what a mess that was

[Stubby]

4 minutes ago, gary112 said:

Your right Stubby a hell of a lot has changed,don,t think i,d try and use the old GTX in my new Huskys nowadays,the other thing my old man did was use waste oil for the bar,what a mess that was

Waste engine oil is full of swarf  .