Covid 19 inconsistencies

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, Woodworks said:

"the futility of it all" We cut deaths from 1000 a day to less than 10 a day and even now it's only 60 but rising. That is a lot of lives saved  and I dont see that as futile. We need to be careful through this winter but come the spring and summer we have shown we can have a fairly normal life by meeting up outside and not seeing huge numbers of cases. The smart money thinks we will have some sort of vaccine in numbers by this time next year so if we can keep numbers down over the winter we may well be on the way out of this mess.

I wonder if the 30-50,000 generally ignored annual UK excess winter cold deaths will be morphed seamlessly into the C19 figures for this year?  Might add a bit of weight to the argument....

 

I only know 2 families that have had a test - 1 was negative and 1 was positive. 
 

Both families isolated, both blokes self employed. The guy that was positive is back at work on day 10 and says he had ‘like a cold’ (they got young children/baby so it was a concern but all doing fine now.)

There needs to be a tailored approach according to circumstances - there’s no credibility in applying the same counter measures from a large urban  conurbation to a rural settings, those applicable to the vulnerable to the less vulnerable and if racial/ethnic groups are identified (specifically by race/ethnicity) as particularly ‘at risk’ then they should have specific measures applied. 
 

(no doubt some fruit loop will suggest ghetto / racial bias but where racial/ethnic centric behaviours can be identified as a primary transmission vector then it is what it is - Israel is struggling with the behaviour of the ultra orthodox community for example)

 

I voted Tory (this time, through lack of choice) but I also feel ‘government’ is rapidly losing the support of the masses. 
 

Compliance is going to degrade and there’s no appetite for further unilateral restrictive impositions. 
 

Time will tell. 

[Woodworks]

1 hour ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

I wonder if the 30-50,000 generally ignored annual UK excess winter cold deaths will be morphed seamlessly into the C19 figures for this year?  Might add a bit of weight to the argument....

 

I only know 2 families that have had a test - 1 was negative and 1 was positive. 
 

Both families isolated, both blokes self employed. The guy that was positive is back at work on day 10 and says he had ‘like a cold’ (they got young children/baby so it was a concern but all doing fine now.)

There needs to be a tailored approach according to circumstances - there’s no credibility in applying the same counter measures from a large urban  conurbation to a rural settings, those applicable to the vulnerable to the less vulnerable and if racial/ethnic groups are identified (specifically by race/ethnicity) as particularly ‘at risk’ then they should have specific measures applied. 
 

(no doubt some fruit loop will suggest ghetto / racial bias but where racial/ethnic centric behaviours can be identified as a primary transmission vector then it is what it is - Israel is struggling with the behaviour of the ultra orthodox community for example)

 

I voted Tory (this time, through lack of choice) but I also feel ‘government’ is rapidly losing the support of the masses. 
 

Compliance is going to degrade and there’s no appetite for further unilateral restrictive impositions. 
 

Time will tell. 

Show us a country that has let it rip and successfully protected the vulnerable. It's a lovely idea but very hard to do in reality. Far too much crossover or you leave the elderly completely isolated which is impossible. My father is 87 and according to the stats a 15% chance of dying from it. His only contacts during the week are his cleaners and me. The cleaners are young so if they get it they could easily pass it on. Basic masks are not great protection for aerosols which more and more like the main transmission rout. As for numbers I know of four people who have tested positive. All working age and two are fine, one has been is off sick since April and the other is dead. Mrs woodworks works in healthcare and they are maxed out on a good day with no C19. You dont see any of them saying lets let it rip as that is just RIP for many

[Johnsond]

21 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Show us a country that has let it rip and successfully protected the vulnerable. It's a lovely idea but very hard to do in reality. Far too much crossover or you leave the elderly completely isolated which is impossible. My father is 87 and according to the stats a 15% chance of dying from it. His only contacts during the week are his cleaners and me. The cleaners are young so if they get it they could easily pass it on. Basic masks are not great protection for aerosols which more and more like the main transmission rout. As for numbers I know of four people who have tested positive. All working age and two are fine, one has been is off sick since April and the other is dead. Mrs woodworks works in healthcare and they are maxed out on a good day with no C19. You dont see any of them saying lets let it rip as that is just RIP for many

Let it Rip is a foolish description for what basically was achieved in Sweden. 
The actions  you support and advocate are neither sustainable nor in reality being adhered too. The reality not some mad figure designed to terrify people  plucked out of Ferguson’s head of this for hundreds of thousands of people is loss of jobs, homes and in many many cases lives to other issues other that bloody Covid. We as a nation have lost all sense of rational in relation to this virus. 
No offence meant but at 87 any infection of illness including common flu will probably incur statistical risks along those lines. 15% ?‍♂️ think about it an 85% chance to be fine !!!. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Johnsond

[Steve Bullman]

3 hours ago, Woodworks said:

"the futility of it all" We cut deaths from 1000 a day to less than 10 a day and even now it's only 60 but rising. That is a lot of lives saved  and I dont see that as futile. We need to be careful through this winter but come the spring and summer we have shown we can have a fairly normal life by meeting up outside and not seeing huge numbers of cases. The smart money thinks we will have some sort of vaccine in numbers by this time next year so if we can keep numbers down over the winter we may well be on the way out of this mess.

In my opinion its entirely plausible that the drop in death rates over the summer was as much attributable to the warmer temperatures than it was the lockdown.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just now, Steve Bullman said:

In my opinion its entirely plausible that the drop in death rates over the summer was as much attributable to the warmer temperatures than it was the lockdown.

It is also plausible to consider that the Summer reduction resulted from the actual previous death of those most vulnerable...  

[Steve Bullman]

2 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

It is also plausible to consider that the Summer reduction resulted from the actual previous death of those most vulnerable...  

Yeah I considered that, but really the amount that died although tragic, is not really a huge number on the scale of things...maybe a small dent in the amount of venerable people in the population

[Johnsond]

6 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

It is also plausible to consider that the Summer reduction resulted from the actual previous death of those most vulnerable...  

As has been mentioned the seasonal increase in Flu statistics have hardly raised an eyebrow over the years, indeed it was seen as a part of life and a consequential risk of old age. We have dealt with this for years without the requirement to be dictated to by politicians at every step of the way. What’s new this time around ?? MSM driven hysteria and weak government combined with a seeming desire of many to be told what to do in every aspect of day to day life. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

3 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

Yeah I considered that, but really the amount that died although tragic, is not really a huge number on the scale of things...maybe a small dent in the amount of venerable people in the population

Absolutely agree 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

21 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Show us a country that has let it rip and successfully protected the vulnerable. It's a lovely idea but very hard to do in reality. Far too much crossover or you leave the elderly completely isolated which is impossible. My father is 87 and according to the stats a 15% chance of dying from it. His only contacts during the week are his cleaners and me. The cleaners are young so if they get it they could easily pass it on. Basic masks are not great protection for aerosols which more and more like the main transmission rout. As for numbers I know of four people who have tested positive. All working age and two are fine, one has been is off sick since April and the other is dead. Mrs woodworks works in healthcare and they are maxed out on a good day with no C19. You dont see any of them saying lets let it rip as that is just RIP for many

I totally acknowledge (and respect) the varying degrees of risk aversion at the personal level which are directly associated with any individual's family circumstances.

 

The wife holds a slightly different view from my own (how's that for a liberal forward thinking relationship...  Normally, if I want her to have an opinion I tell her what it's going to be - If she ever saw that BTW I'd be in the so much trouble ?). 

 

The elderly and the vulnerable should, absolutely, be shielded.  Me, I'll make my own decisions on exposure and risk.  We've all gotta go one day and whilst I've no wish to unnecessarily accelerate that, I'm not quivering in fear of the day (I would admit to being a bit worried by dementia or a progressive degenerative condition over and above the natural ageing process though.)

 

 

[Johnsond]

I’d be curious to know hand on heart how many people on here or elsewhere are in reality following the guidelines to the letter. Myself I openly admit not at all, but what I do try and use is common sense. Luckily I live in the sticks which does mitigate the risk of too much social interaction.