Have the definitive regulations regarding firewood?

[john87]

16 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

I wonder if you could 'deliver' 2m3 but take a cube back to get round the regs?

 

On a more serious note, with the higher heating bills we are all going to face next winter I would think everyone's time would be better spent trying to encourage people to accept 2m3.

 

Also keep an eye out for when the consultation starts about regulating even large loads.

Well, if the regulations state "delivery" then none of it applies to collections then. What if a separate arm of your business acted as a transport company transporting wood [for a fee] for people that had bought it...

 

No rules broken there...

 

john..

[Ben Pinnick]

33 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

I wonder if you could 'deliver' 2m3 but take a cube back to get round the regs?

 

On a more serious note, with the higher heating bills we are all going to face next winter I would think everyone's time would be better spent trying to encourage people to accept 2m3.

 

Also keep an eye out for when the consultation starts about regulating even large loads.

This is always the problem. Creeping costs of regulation mean there's going to be favouritism for larger wholesales that are regulated who then pass certified product to the 'retailer'. In an ideal world I think they'd prefer one wholesaler!

[john87]

Just thought i would leave you all a link to the regulations themselves, so in the event of any arguments you will have a copy of the actual act of parliament itself..

 

The Air Quality (Domestic Solid Fuels Standards) (England) Regulations 2020

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

These Regulations are made under section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (c. 25). They make provision...

 

They do not apply to wales or scotland.. situation unchanged there..

 

john..

 

[john87]

Ok, so it turns out that the penalty is set at £300

 

This being less than £500, i know what i would be doing...

 

Interestingly enough, the regulations all refer to a "person" What if the enterprise supplying the wood is a linited company?? Then what. How do you "fixed penalty" [it is not a fine] a limited company?? You cannot give a penalty to the bloke that drove the van, or the bloke serving in the farm shop, as they are mere employees..

 

Whole thing is unworkable, the LA has not the resources to get involved, the customers just want the wood..

 

I think you can all just forget about it to be honest..

 

john..

 

Fixed penalties

 

18.—(1) An officer of a relevant local authority who has reason to believe that a person has committed an offence under these Regulations may issue that person a penalty notice in respect of the offence.

 

(2) A penalty notice is a notice offering a person the opportunity to discharge any liability to conviction for the offence to which the notice relates by paying a penalty in accordance with this Part.

Contents of a penalty notice

 

19.—(1) A penalty notice must—

 

(a)state the alleged offence; and

 

(b)give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute it as are necessary for giving reasonable information about it.

 

(2) A penalty notice must also state—

 

(a)the name and address of the relevant local authority on whose behalf the officer of the authority was acting when the notice was given;

 

(b)the amount of the penalty and the period for its payment;

 

(c)the consequences of not paying the penalty before the end of the period mentioned in paragraph (b);

 

(d)the relevant local authority to whom, and the address at which, payment may be made;

 

(e)by what method payment may be made;

 

(f)the relevant local authority to whom, and the address at which, any representations relating to the notice may be made.

 

(3) A penalty notice must also—

 

(a)inform the person to whom it is issued of that person’s right to be tried for the alleged offence; and

 

(b)explain how that right may be exercised.

 

Amount of penalty and period for payment

 

20.—(1) The penalty is £300 in respect of the offence in respect of which the penalty notice was issued.

 

(2) The period for payment of the penalty is the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice is issued.

 

(3) An unpaid fixed penalty may be enforced by a local authority as a fine, a civil debt or as if it were a sum payable under a county court order.

john..

[jackpease]

I don't think the Ltd company thing will wash - there's zillions of regs that are couched like this and the law would apply to person (individual) or person (ltd company director) whatever.
   The point is that it wouldn't be a single one off penalty - if you keep selling you keep offending so there'd be repeat offences. As Woodsure has convinced its Tory mates in government to award itself a cosy cartel, just as it's blitz-calling non-registered wood suppliers, so it will repeatedly report you to trading standards for repeatedly breaching regs. In the end Woodsure will remind trading standards that it has a duty to enforce the law and gleefully provide the evidence that sellers are breaching it.
    In China they have a rate card for dobbing covid-breachers in it which ensures it is enforced in practice. What Woodsure has secured itself is much the same ie the more people it dobs in it the more money it gets by charging £500 to ensure your wood is dry. I don't think there are smart ways to get round this any more than smart ways to avoid speeding tickets etc.

[john87]

15 minutes ago, jackpease said:

I don't think the Ltd company thing will wash - there's zillions of regs that are couched like this and the law would apply to person (individual) or person (ltd company director) whatever.
   The point is that it wouldn't be a single one off penalty - if you keep selling you keep offending so there'd be repeat offences. As Woodsure has convinced its Tory mates in government to award itself a cosy cartel, just as it's blitz-calling non-registered wood suppliers, so it will repeatedly report you to trading standards for repeatedly breaching regs. In the end Woodsure will remind trading standards that it has a duty to enforce the law and gleefully provide the evidence that sellers are breaching it.
    In China they have a rate card for dobbing covid-breachers in it which ensures it is enforced in practice. What Woodsure has secured itself is much the same ie the more people it dobs in it the more money it gets by charging £500 to ensure your wood is dry. I don't think there are smart ways to get round this any more than smart ways to avoid speeding tickets etc.

I agree with what you are saying, but the exact same situation applies to electricians doing notifiable work that are not registered with a scheme. I have yet to hear of ONE prosecution, other than the scams suing someone for falsely claiming the are a member when they are not..

 

I am not sure trading standards have a duty to do anything, merely a "power" if they so choose. I can tell you that they will refuse to act against people with lots of money too [from personal experience]

 

IF you register, you can EXPECT a visit. [after all, you went and paid them to] If not, you "might" get one.. [cos now they are out of pocket]

 

john..

[Ben Pinnick]

1 hour ago, john87 said:

I agree with what you are saying, but the exact same situation applies to electricians doing notifiable work that are not registered with a scheme. I have yet to hear of ONE prosecution, other than the scams suing someone for falsely claiming the are a member when they are not..

 

I think there may be a difference - the presumption will be (like PRS for music in workplaces) that there's always a need to be registered, rather than notifiable work for electricians where its possible to carry on a business without ever doing a notifiable job on your own (You only need someone to do it for you at the end as I understand it so their could be unlimited sub contract sparkies doing the work with just one ticketed person or a building inspector at the end of the job). PRS operates as guilty until proven innocent, unlike the electrician certs. I suspect Woodsure will take the same approach; if not registered you are likely to be in breach of the regs and pursue as such.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Ben Pinnick

[Stere]

What model of moisture meter will they issue the new local council firewood police with?

 

Suppose they will need to carry hatchet/axe also to split the logs for the readings.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ben Pinnick]

Don't know but given the prices these departments often pay for off the shelf stuff I'd like the contract to supply it!

[Martin du Preez]

Not really.. i have a set of electronic crane scales. You could simply hook on a bag, press the "tare" button, and then throw in logs to the desired weight. You could dangle the whole lot from a chain block..
 
john..

Why would you sell by weight? Surely the wetter the wood the heavier it would be?? What’s ever been wrong with cubic volume?