How do you air dry your wood down to 20% ??

[trigger_andy]

  On 23/02/2020 at 17:57, Big J said:

 

It was the 20kw stove from The Champion Stove Company. A Jotul copy.

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Jøtul themselves seem to recommend Hardwoods, I have no idea what a copy of theirs would recommend though; 

 

Trust in Hardwoods

Different woods burn in different ways and hardwoods have proven to be among the best sources of heat for any wood burning stove. Hardwoods provide a dense wood structure when properly seasoned, and burn for much longer than the loose structure of soft woods such as pine and spruce. Oak and Elm are great Hardwoods, but can be difficult to burn within the unit as their density structure is sometimes too tight to burn. Some of the best choices include; Crab Apple, Hornbeam, Ash, Beech, and Hawthorn. These woods have proven over time to burn the best without too tight of an interior structure.

 

Some new wood stove owners attempt to burn pine as the wood is cheap, but Pine should always be avoided as the wood builds up harmful deposits within the flue. Overtime, the use has been known to cause fires. The wood is ideal for outdoor fires only as there is no risk of the harmful buildup in the great outdoors.

 

  On 23/02/2020 at 17:57, Big J said:

The slightly lower calorific value of softwood is more than offset by the fact that it takes only a fraction of the time to process, dries more quickly and is more readily available. Some of that cost saving can be passed onto the customer.

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Everything you just mentioned only benefits the supplier and not the end user. With Softwood fractionally cheaper than Hardwood it makes no sense to buy softwood. Say you sell a Dumpy Bag of Softwood at a weight of 200kg, and the same Dumpy Bag of Hardwood at 350kg,  you're getting significantly less calorific value for a few quid cheaper. Where sellers to sell by weight alone only then does the calorific value really come into play. 

 

  On 23/02/2020 at 17:57, Big J said:

There is going to be a massive shortage of fuel wood in the coming decade. The Commission stopped planting large amounts of new woodland from the start of the 90s and many of the restocks after about 2000 (after softwood clearfells) were native broadleaf. Given that squirrels have knobbled most of these, and ash dieback is buggering the rest, there is a large gap in supply coming up and given that the (very hungry) RHI accreditted boilers on higher tariffs still have up to 17 years left, they will be able to pay more for timber than any firewood producer. Drax in Kent sucks up timber from as far as West Wales and Cornwall. The eucalyptus is the only way to plug the gap due to it's staggering growth rate.

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Ah I see.  Interesting info, cheers.  

[Stubby]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:51, trigger_andy said:

 

 

Trust in Hardwoods

Different woods burn in different ways and hardwoods have proven to be among the best sources of heat for any wood burning stove. Hardwoods provide a dense wood structure when properly seasoned, and burn for much longer than the loose structure of soft woods such as pine and spruce. Oak and Elm are great Hardw

 

Some new wood stove owners attempt to burn pine as the wood is cheap, but Pine should always be avoided as the wood builds up harmful deposits within the flue. Overtime, the use has been known to cause fires. The wood is ideal for outdoor fires only as there is no risk of the harmful buildup in the great outdoors.

 

 

This I feel is miss information . Soft woods do not cause the problems mentioned if seasoned properly .  All wood hard or soft will tar up the flue if burnt wet . 

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[trigger_andy]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:06, The avantgardener said:

The type of wood people burn generally depends on what grows in that particular area. High altitude/low temperature areas generally don’t grow much in the way of broadleaf so they will be burning softwood. Norway’s forests are made up of around 75% Birch, which is why it is the most widely used, in most firewood calorific value charts Birch sits right between two softwoods, Pine and Douglas Fir.

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But they still are not interested in burning Softwood. I know a couple of sellers over there (Small Scale) and they simply cant shift it. People have been ingrained to think Birch is the way forward hence why they seem to import huge quantities for all the stoves almist every home seems to have there. They dont sell anything other that Birch in almost all the outlets I used. But when they are importing so much Birch you'd think they'd also import other hardwoods, but they dont. Anyway, the point being is they, like us in the UK are conditioned not to burn Softwood, for whatever reason.

[trigger_andy]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:56, Stubby said:

This I feel is miss information . Soft woods do not cause the problems mentioned if seasoned properly .  All wood hard or soft will tar up the flue if burnt wet . 

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I agree, but thats Jøtuls own advice. I'd imagine other Norwegian Stove manufacturers give out the same. So its little wonder why Scandinavians, like people in the UK wont buy it. 

[Big J]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:51, trigger_andy said:

Jøtul themselves seem to recommend Hardwoods, I have no idea what a copy of theirs would recommend though; 

 

Trust in Hardwoods

Different woods burn in different ways and hardwoods have proven to be among the best sources of heat for any wood burning stove. Hardwoods provide a dense wood structure when properly seasoned, and burn for much longer than the loose structure of soft woods such as pine and spruce. Oak and Elm are great Hardwoods, but can be difficult to burn within the unit as their density structure is sometimes too tight to burn. Some of the best choices include; Crab Apple, Hornbeam, Ash, Beech, and Hawthorn. These woods have proven over time to burn the best without too tight of an interior structure.

 

Some new wood stove owners attempt to burn pine as the wood is cheap, but Pine should always be avoided as the wood builds up harmful deposits within the flue. Overtime, the use has been known to cause fires. The wood is ideal for outdoor fires only as there is no risk of the harmful buildup in the great outdoors.

 

Everything you just mentioned only benefits the supplier and not the end user. With Softwood fractionally cheaper than Hardwood it makes no sense to buy softwood. Say you sell a Dumpy Bag of Softwood at a weight of 200kg, and the same Dumpy Bag of Hardwood at 350kg,  you're getting significantly less calorific value for a few quid cheaper. Where sellers to sell by weight alone only then does the calorific value really come into play. 

 

Ah I see.  Interesting info, cheers.  

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Interesting to see Jotul recommending hardwood. I hadn't seen that before. Either way, we put around 150-160 cube through ours in 4 years, mostly softwood, with no issues whatsoever. Didn't ever sweep the chimney either as I didn't ever see a reduction in draw, and the stove was on 8 months a year. 

 

The dried weight of pine, larch and hemlock is not significantly lower than ash or birch. If I were selling logs these days (which I wouldn't) I'd be looking to sell softwood at about 20-25% less than hardwood. I'd still make more money than selling hardwood as the processing time is so much less, but equally the customer would get better value for money. This local firewood retailer to my old yard has successfully converted most of their customers to softwood: 

 

Logs and Woodfuel

WWW.CHAMPFLEURIEESTATE.CO.UK

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Garden furniture from Champfleurie Estate - Site Map

 

[trigger_andy]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:10, Big J said:

We're very reliant on Sitka, which grows far too quickly to be a quality fuel wood, on account of it being about 60-65% water when felled. Hemlock makes a much better (whitewood) firewood.

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Ive got loads growing in my plot.  Horrid stuff.  Will be burning it regardless. What else is it useful for? 

[Squaredy]

Slight correction needed - calorific value of dry softwood is HIGHER per kilo than hardwood - not lower (except Spruce).  Look it up....file:///C:/Users/cashgen/Downloads/FR_BEC_Wood_as_Fuel_Technical_Supplement_2010.pdf

 

The confusion arises because a lot of hardwoods are heavier for the same volume, so per cubic foot or cubic metre hardwoods may be higher calorific value - but not all.  Alder, UK Birch, Sycamore are all lighter than many softwoods.

[Big J]

  On 23/02/2020 at 19:00, trigger_andy said:

Ive got loads growing in my plot.  Horrid stuff.  Will be burning it regardless. What else is it useful for? 

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It's brilliant if grown to a proper size and mechanically harvested. Produces consistent (low to medium) quality timber, doesn't fracture when being felled, produces brash of fantastic quality and grows well on wet sites. Depending on how much you have, clearfell it and replant with eucalyptus glaucescens. Double the growth rate of spruce (at least), looks lovely and produces good logs.

[trigger_andy]

  On 23/02/2020 at 18:59, Big J said:

Either way, we put around 150-160 cube through ours in 4 years, mostly softwood, with no issues whatsoever. Didn't ever sweep the chimney either as I didn't ever see a reduction in draw, and the stove was on 8 months a year. 

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How do you find time for a job?  Must have been nipping out for a bag of logs continually.  

 

I still prefer burning Beech, lovely glowing coals to lose yourself in with a glass of Whisky.  Birch smells amazing though, as I hear Cherry does, and Im looking forward to burning my stock of that once its dry. 

[Big J]

  On 23/02/2020 at 19:00, trigger_andy said:

Ive got loads growing in my plot.  Horrid stuff.  Will be burning it regardless. What else is it useful for? 

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Higher value per dry kilo, but lower per cubic metre due to lower density. It's not by much, mind.