Let's see your twin rope system..

[wjotner]

26 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

I use this for my twin rope. It's a camp gyro. I have a Treemotion Evo but I found if you have an anchor tied into a ring on each rope bridge then they can have a habit of pulling apart if you have a bit of distance between your two anchors. So you can't rotate or roll on the rope bridge. I have a ring on the second bridge which I sometimes use to create a third anchor with my positional strop on some awkward cuts or when I need to move in from a branch and don't want to pendulum slam into the trunk. 

The rope bridge and camp gyro is part of my daily kit inspection where I anally check them. The camp gyro is all stainless steel and it's a hardy bit of kit. The way that I see it the only way that I will fall is if I cut my rope bridge with a chainsaw. Even then I would be tied in with a positional strop. If I manage to cut both the rope bridge and the positional strop in one go like that then I must be doing something dumb and I deserve to fall out the tree... 

I was looking at that both of kit today actually. Does that system work ok when both lines are running parallel? Does it help prevent them getting jumbled together and rubbing?

[Paddy1000111]

13 minutes ago, wjotner said:

I was looking at that both of kit today actually. Does that system work ok when both lines are running parallel? Does it help prevent them getting jumbled together and rubbing?

Yea 100% but if you are running completely parallel then the carabiners will touch. They won't however get caught up on each other and apply force. I run the same length prussik on both and usually only run a rope wrench on one of them as I consider one the backup. It places them really close together so going down is always a single handed jobbie. I found having 2 lines on two separate bridges meant I always had to use 2 hands or see-saw between each one as I couldn't activate both prussiks with one hand. They come with 3 silicone grommets to prevent carabiner damage and the stainless ring without the silicone is perfect on the rope bridge. If you find they are rubbing then because they rotate independently of each other you can twist the carab gates in opposing directions if you're worried about it. I haven't had an issue at all. I was using a ring before and the carabiners were always in the wrong orientation or a rope was twisted or something. With a Gryo, no matter what you do or where you go nothing gets twisted

Edited December 5, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Dan Maynard]

I think the lack of clarity on whether you require two bridges to avoid single point of failure stems from the lack of clarity about the reasons for two rope working. To me, requiring two ropes for everything is against the principle of risk assessment which we actually need.

 

I believe gear failure to be very rare, it's more anchor point failure that is the risk so the single bridge is fine.

 

I really like that swivel idea, getting the two systems twisted is one of the worst bits of two rope when I've used it, which then requires disconnecting bits when in the tree and opens up a whole load more risks.

[wjotner]

Thanks Dan and Paddy. Helpful thoughts. I think you've helped me make my mind up to get the camp gyro. Seems like (until a better setup is invented) it's the only way to make 2 rope working tolerable.

[Luckyeleven]

2 swivels with a spacer between?

[Paddy1000111]

1 hour ago, Dan Maynard said:

I think the lack of clarity on whether you require two bridges to avoid single point of failure stems from the lack of clarity about the reasons for two rope working. To me, requiring two ropes for everything is against the principle of risk assessment which we actually need.

I think there was a post about this recently saying that one rope bridge is fine. If it wasn't the only harness to be okay would be the treemotion evo. At the end of the day there's always going to be one point of failure in a system somewhere unless we start wearing 2 harnesses 😂 All this stuff stems from the industrial aerial access stuff for windows and wind turbines. Their tie ins are onto one hoop on their harness anyway. The most likely point of failure for us is, like you say, the anchor, followed by the rope, followed by your prussik (Some people leave their prussik/e2e tied on all the time and never inspect it 😣). Unless you cut your rope bridge it's unlikely to fail, apart from getting very minorly glazed over time it's not a "high wear" item as such. 

 

The camp gyro is at the moment, the only true multi-point swivel. Loads of other companies have swivels etc but none of them are fully independent or you end up connecting loads of them together.  The only way they could improve the gyro for me is to make one of the rings bigger and fatter so you can fit both rope bridges through it and have have a larger bend radius for the rope bridge. Apart from that it's perfect! 

[wjotner]

2 hours ago, Luckyeleven said:

2 swivels with a spacer between?

I think this would leave you still with both attachments getting twisted up when you try to spin around.

[Paddy1000111]

26 minutes ago, wjotner said:

I think this would leave you still with both attachments getting twisted up when you try to spin around.

And if you have 2 anchors in separate parts of the tree (which I do a lot now as it helps move around) then they would still separate and it would be like having an anchor rope on each hip D 

[Rob Thompson]

The camp gyro is too skinny. Where's the DMM option ?!? Come on DMM, pull your bloody socks up !

I don't need three independently spinning key rings, I need three static rings, mounted on a swivel. The hydra/rook will not work for me, because the tail ends of line face to the side. That's a pain for one handed operation. I don't want to tend one at a time.

I'm really hoping that DMM or ISC come up with an option. Super high quality, with an industry appearance.

[Topper]

For over 15yrs i  have complied with the WHAR.....it has not changed or been amended yet we have had an industry storm in a tea cup......how did i do it?.......by reading the WAHR(2005).....

 

A rope access or positioning technique shall be used only if—
(a) it involves a system comprising at least two separately anchored lines, of which one (“the working line”) is used as a means of access, egress and support and the other is the safety line; 

 

AND THEN.....

 

3.The system may comprise a single rope where—
(a) a risk assessment has demonstrated that the use of a second line would entail higher risk to persons; and
(b) appropriate measures have been taken to ensure safety.

 

Nothing has changed except the rhetoric......it's not hard to work out how to exercise compliance and common sense 👍

Edited June 23, 2021 by Topper