Two-rope Working - an update

[MattyF]

Some people just have more ability than others. Some just shouldn't do tree work at all....I dont see why that so difficult to accept for what it is. Sad to see those who can and do being forcibly dragged down to this level without even having any say in the matter. Makes you wonder what will they think of next. Have many fond memories doing tree work in England, but the job has since been invaded by parasitic individuals and groups off, making up, then changing rules to create work and revenue for themselves. Glad I left.

Absolutely spot on .. I wonder what it would take to get this reversed ? This is going to make tree work even more dangerous not safer.. does any one know how to start online petitions this needs to be reversed as I’m sure a good % of the people in Arb are not parasites... I recon 90% of tree workers get this is a mental idea.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

For those who said the link didn't work (no idea why!) see attached.

 

Cheers,

Paul

2 rope working - an update (Nov.2019).pdf

[Treeation]

Not sure its all doom and gloom.

 

 

1. Who will actually be policing this? I imagine unless there is an accident or insurance claim to cater for,or you are working on a high profile site many climbers will carry on using their prefferred methods that they have ample experience and skill to do so.

 

2. In the hierachy of using the 2 rope system point 3 says. "If, as a result of a risk assessment, it is determined that it is not reasonably practicable, or would entail higher risk to persons,* to achieve points 1 or 2, then one system installed over one load-bearing anchor may be used." Im sure a lot of climbers are capable of making their own risk assessments whilst assessing the tree initially and may well chose this option.

 

3. Although a 2 rope system might be a pain in the arse at times it may be quite useful in certain trees especially with spready trees such as silver maples or where there isnt a nice central leader to anchor to, or if cimbing sketchier trees in decline/ ash dieback, dead uns etc....

[Tom D]

There are a few points to make here:

First; the ICOP is still in gestation and we have been promised a consultation on that before it gets published.

Second; the accident rate probably won't change because all the guys who were having accidents due to not following the old ICOP or due to incompetence still won't follow the new rules and will still be just as incompetent.

Third; the use of a second line will as many have pointed out make the job more dangerous in many situations. But for access there will be the two rope requirement. This will mean that chances are on most big tree jobs the climber will ascend on two ropes (*Clears throat*) and then unclip from one of them in order to begin reducing / dismantling. This will leave a pre-installed rescue line in the tree (so long as the climber has remembered to lower the prussic to the floor).

Having a pre-installed line in the tree will not be a bad thing.

[MattyF]

Not sure its all doom and gloom.
 
 
1. Who will actually be policing this? I imagine unless there is an accident or insurance claim to cater for,or you are working on a high profile site many climbers will carry on using their prefferred methods that they have ample experience and skill to do so.
 
2. In the hierachy of using the 2 rope system point 3 says. "If, as a result of a risk assessment, it is determined that it is not reasonably practicable, or would entail higher risk to persons,* to achieve points 1 or 2, then one system installed over one load-bearing anchor may be used." Im sure a lot of climbers are capable of making their own risk assessments whilst assessing the tree initially and may well chose this option.
 
3. Although a 2 rope system might be a pain in the arse at times it may be quite useful in certain trees especially with spready trees such as silver maples or where there isnt a nice central leader to anchor to, or if cimbing sketchier trees in decline/ ash dieback, dead uns etc....

That about rights off it off on my risk assessment for working off two ropes on most trees as you say there are times and places to do so and most of us with any sense will and have been , but thanks for showing as I missed this first glance through.

[Mr. Squirrel]

On 29/11/2019 at 08:23, Tom D said:

Having a pre-installed line in the tree will not be a bad thing.

This should be the norm anyway. It's a fundamental part of being able to carry out an efficient rescue.

I'm not even bothered by the financial or time implications. I'll be able to get round trees regardless and don't see it hampering my productivity too much. It's the safety thing that I take major issue with, as I believe this will obstruct our ability to climb fluidly and safely. At which point we're just a bunch of clowns farting about with two ropes for no real reason and endangering ourselves further.

As said most of those accidents were due to easily avoidable and unforgivable human error. The brain dead fuckwits will continue to drop out of trees until people stop passing them on their tickets. 

Also, Dr Andrew Turner, Acting Head of Vulnerable Workers, Agriculture, Waste and Recycling Team, Operational Strategy Team, Engagement and Policy Division. What on earth is this guy doing looking at arb??!!!

Edited November 30, 2019 by Mr. Squirrel

[RC0]

Curious to know, does spur climbing not get tought in the UK these days....whether to simply reach an anchor point or to start cutting from the bottom up ? Anyone 

 

 

[Pete Mctree]

It is still taught,  but younger climbers don’t seem to use them as much. I have seen quite a few remove the canopy without & use them for the timber/stem. Can’t work it out myself 

[Arboricultured]

Curious to know, does spur climbing not get tought in the UK these days....whether to simply reach an anchor point or to start cutting from the bottom up ? Anyone 
 
 

It was about 12 years ago but when I was a college it was taught only for pole climbing. It was two ends of your rope end over end to get an anchor and then down and bottom up from there. Since leaving college progressively I have done much more spur work on the access to trees on dismantles. It’s often quicker and easier to spike up knocking off bits on the way up, as you say. Not sure about now but I can’t imagine it’s changed much.

[RC0]

18 minutes ago, Arboricultured said:

 

It was about 12 years ago but when I was a college it was taught only for pole climbing. It was two ends of your rope end over end to get an anchor and then down and bottom up from there. Since leaving college progressively I have done much more spur work on the access to trees on dismantles. It’s often quicker and easier to spike up knocking off bits on the way up, as you say. Not sure about now but I can’t imagine it’s changed much.

 

What Im getting at is this pre set line thing....even if the tree is coming down. Is this being taught as a 'must' now ?