Forestry work

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, ESS said:

Tbh all t

 

Tbh all the work I do on piece pays a better return than hourly/day rate.Providing the rate is fair for the work it is the best way of working. We are talking about self employed cutters/ contractors working within an industry that has worked that way for a hundred years or more, why change it , it works ?

There are boys earning towards £80/90k a year on harvesters on piece rate, not too bad really.

Fair enough some people can make it pay, but what the op is describing sounds like hell. Providing all the gear, knocking your pan in and for that kind of money? 

Lots of things have worked well for hundreds of years, Slavery for one, but it does not make it right.

 

I guess as log there is people out there happy to break their bodies for that kind a pay they will be people out there to take advantage of that. Same as working in Amazon and Starbucks I guess? 

 

Are the lads on £80-90k also having to pay for the cost and upkeep of the Harvesters? I doubt they are just sitting in the seat and making that kinda money with no overheads. 

[drinksloe]

1 hour ago, trigger_andy said:

 

It’s absolutely scandalous that in this day and age people are still paid piece rate. I don’t see how it’s legal to be honest. Yet some will justify it and happily pay their workers peanuts yet complain when Amazon does the same thing. ? Imagine if Amazon paid piece rates? The U.K. would rightly be up in arms.

 

 

I really don't see a problem as long are rates are set at the right money.

 

I don't know the lad, but he's on about not working for 12ph, the last fencing company I subbed to were paying some of they're SE fencers about 10 an hour which is rubbish, but they were also useless c**rs and it was probably more than they deserved, I was on a good bit more but I do have a lot of experience.

 

When u start a job as ESS says ur not working at full speed and often ineffeciently as I've not picked up the tricks yet so I can't really expect full wage. Cutting piecework will give u that.

 

Plenty of brickies, roofers, tradesmen etc, fencers, sheep shearer's or agri contractors will all work piece work

 

Ps ran out of battery, just to add

Just to add most trades will take 4yrs before they get full tradesman rates.

 

I have no idea about the rate offered but if u havent counted ur pieces u dont really know how far off a decent wage u were, or wot rate is need to be on a decent wage. So if an other contractor offers u another job on better rates u still don't know. ( Althou a massive amount will depend on the actual timber, but with exp u could look at a stand and have a good guess wot if cut in a day and so wot the rates Ned to be, without counting all just guess work)

Edited December 1, 2019 by drinksloe

[ESS]

10 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Fair enough some people can make it pay, but what the op is describing sounds like hell. Providing all the gear, knocking your pan in and for that kind of money? 

Lots of things have worked well for hundreds of years, Slavery for one, but it does not make it right.

 

I guess as log there is people out there happy to break their bodies for that kind a pay they will be people out there to take advantage of that. Same as working in Amazon and Starbucks I guess? 

 

Are the lads on £80-90k also having to pay for the cost and upkeep of the Harvesters? I doubt they are just sitting in the seat and making that kinda money with no overheads. 

I agree , and have already said that the rate doesn't sound enough on this particular job. Piece rate does work better, providing the rate is fair, harder you work, more you earn, nothing wrong with that.

No , the boys on the harvesters are just operators, only overheads are own vehicle. lodge/caravan, although some companies are throwing truck and fuel card into the deal now to attract good operators.

£60-70k is easily earned sitting on a machine now.

Edited December 1, 2019 by ESS
spelling

[The avantgardener]

1 hour ago, trigger_andy said:

 

It’s absolutely scandalous that in this day and age people are still paid piece rate. I don’t see how it’s legal to be honest. Yet some will justify it and happily pay their workers peanuts yet complain when Amazon does the same thing. ? Imagine if Amazon paid piece rates? The U.K. would rightly be up in arms.

 

Andy, you clearly haven’t a clue how the industry works so why don’t you just button it and maybe you will learn something?

If I tender a price to buy some standing timber from the Forestry Commision, I base my price on the current market value per tonne that I can expect to sell it for roadside.

I then factor in the costs involved to get it roadside, extraction cost per tonne etc.

That leaves the tonnage rate that you can cut it for, I will be cutting at the same per tonne as the other cutters, you will earn what you cut and no one is forcing you to do it, there is no exploitation, you do it or you don’t, this is how the commercial forestry sector is.

Comparing a small gang of hand cutters in Kent to a global tax dodging giant like Amazon if frankly ridiculous. 

[trigger_andy]

Just now, The avantgardener said:

you will earn what you cut and no one is forcing you to do it, there is no exploitation, you do it or you don’t, this is how the commercial forestry sector is.

Comparing a small gang of hand cutters in Kent to a global tax dodging giant like Amazon if frankly ridiculous. 

Of course its the same thing-.  Both seem to be incredibly poorly paid jobs that neither require the employee to take up that job but they do so on their own vocation. Both are exploiting the employee. Thats how the forestry sector is, thats fine thats also how the retail sector works. 

 

Anyway, I'll bow out now. Im clearly never going to convince someone who is happy to pay their employees little more than peanuts....

[The avantgardener]

5 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Of course its the same thing-.  Both seem to be incredibly poorly paid jobs that neither require the employee to take up that job but they do so on their own vocation. Both are exploiting the employee. Thats how the forestry sector is, thats fine thats also how the retail sector works. 

 

Anyway, I'll bow out now. Im clearly never going to convince someone who is happy to pay their employees little more than peanuts....

I am paid the same as I pay the other cutters per tonne, how am I exploiting them?

Most of the cutters who work alongside me are excellent at their job and can exceed the standard day rate that you would get in Forestry.

No one gets into Forestry to get rich, it’s something we love to do, the environment and the challenging work.

The only guys who I know who are rich from it moved into mechanisation or diversified into ride creation and car park creation for the likes of The Woodland Trust.

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by The avantgardener

[Rough Hewn]

No one does Forestry just for the money.
It's about having a forest as your office.
Yes the pay and conditions are not good.
Which is why a lot of us got in to arb work.
More pay, better conditions.
Having said that, if you can hack a few years in forestry, it'll be a walk in the park when you do arb.
[emoji106]

[Khriss]

HAhh hah @Rough Hewn ... you spotted me then. ! K

 

 

 

( Obvs I was wearing Rail Orange at the time, so no cigar fella ! )

[Rough Hewn]

HAhh hah @Rough Hewn ... you spotted me then. ! K
 
 
 
( Obvs I was wearing Rail Orange at the time, so no cigar fella ! )

You can always spot ex Forestry,
They can fell a tree without climbing it,
With a ground Saw!
[emoji849] [emoji12]

[Richard 1234]

2 hours ago, The avantgardener said:

Andy, you clearly haven’t a clue how the industry works so why don’t you just button it and maybe you will learn something?

If I tender a price to buy some standing timber from the Forestry Commision, I base my price on the current market value per tonne that I can expect to sell it for roadside.

I then factor in the costs involved to get it roadside, extraction cost per tonne etc.

That leaves the tonnage rate that you can cut it for, I will be cutting at the same per tonne as the other cutters, you will earn what you cut and no one is forcing you to do it, there is no exploitation, you do it or you don’t, this is how the commercial forestry sector is.

Comparing a small gang of hand cutters in Kent to a global tax dodging giant like Amazon if frankly ridiculous. 

You obviously don’t cut and sell a great deal either since your not vat registered which tells its own story....