Has the world changed?

[aspenarb]

8 hours ago, Old Mill Tree Care said:

 

Fundamentally the day to day functions of feeding and housing the population has remained the same.

Houses and infrastructure must be maintained and developed therefore why is it now virtually impossible to find staff.

I’ve spoken with plenty of other chaps who own their own companies and they all say the same-This year it has become almost impossible to even find idiots, never mind decent people.

I’m no exception, work is flooding in, I’ll pay well and offer good development opportunities to the right person, yet there is no one forthcoming.

Odd and really frustrating!

 

 

We do have a hand in this Al. For many years now kids have been fobbed off with just about anything from computer games to any hair brained activity just to buy their silence and get them from under our feet. Its a far cry from the way my father raised us, he involved us in just about everything he did from a very early age whether tinkering in the garage at weekends or working every day during the school holidays for pocket money. It was simple work ethics instilled in us whereby if we wanted something we had to earn it. There is no want in many youngsters today because they simply don't know the meaning of the word and that seriously impacts on their work ethics. We have all had our heads up our arses far too long and need to slow down a bit, perhaps focus a bit more on the kids.They know or need fuck all because we have taught them fuck all, that's our fault. 

 

Bob

 

[Ratman]

 
We do have a hand in this Al. For many years now kids have been fobbed off with just about anything from computer games to any hair brained activity just to buy their silence and get them from under our feet. Its a far cry from the way my father raised us, he involved us in just about everything he did from a very early age whether tinkering in the garage at weekends or working every day during the school holidays for pocket money. It was simple work ethics instilled in us whereby if we wanted something we had to earn it. There is no want in many youngsters today because they simply don't know the meaning of the word and that seriously impacts on their work ethics. We have all had our heads up our arses far too long and need to slow down a bit, perhaps focus a bit more on the kids.They know or need fuck all because we have taught them fuck all, that's our fault. 
 
Bob
 

Spot on! Just how i see it,

“Whats in the cats in the kittens”

as they say! It all starts at home with the parents/parenting i rekon!

[eggsarascal]

Look, to take down a tree, put up a fence, tarmac someone's drive, fix someone's drains, sort out a pump we are charging hundreds if not thousands of pounds, pass it on, or get no one to help you.

[harvey b davison]

I've been working at a local hospital for the past 6 years on the NHS as a maintenance joiner. For the past 5 years I've been asking for an apprentice, I've heard more excuses than anything. I have 30 odd years of woodworking behind me so, could easily give someone a great grounding in joinery. But I just can't get anyone interested in getting me an apprentice. I am so willing to share my knowledge but the management is just not interested.

[Rough Hewn]

While I agree it is difficult to find decent staff other trades are NOT getting double the money. 
Radio 4   More or less made some interesting points. Go to about 12 mins in.
 
A quick summary is lots of these so called "average wages" are rubbish and worked out from a day-rate of self employed  contractors assumed to be working 6 days a week.
 
According to the ONS Employed rates are as follows: 
Brickies are on £25k a year so £99.20 a day.
Plumbers £30K a year £119 a day.
Roofers £24K a year or £95.23 a day
Electricians 31K a year or £123 a day
 
As a comparison 
Nurses start at £21K  or £83 a day. and graduate with £54K worth of Debt..
 
 

BBC Radio 4 - More or Less: Behind the Stats, Dementia, inflation and shark deaths

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

Health risks for Presidential hopefuls, falling inflation, shark deaths and salary claims  

I really don't believe those figures.
I know plenty of trades men, most on £200+ a day. Most 25 year olds with skills on construction sites are earning that too.
Our conditions are bad
Our wages are shit
Oh look we can't find staff.
[emoji849]

[Rough Hewn]

how does a tractor replace a climber ??

Colebrook-Forge Fire Company, Colebrook, Connecticut - A tractor up...

WWW.TROVER.COM

---

A tractor up a tree! And, there's a picnic table underneath.  

Still sub in staff for bigger jobs.
Not every job needs a diva/climber [emoji12]
It's help lifting and moving big logs every day. My back is starting to suffer.
Yes tractors are very cool!!!!
Especially old rusty David browns,
Ooooh you haters [emoji13][emoji6]

[benedmonds]

3 hours ago, Rough Hewn said:

I really don't believe those figures.

I am more likely to believe a BBC programme that has researchers  and are looking at the real numbers than hearsay from a few self employed blokes down the pub.  I agree tree works is at the low end but maybe not as low as some suggest..

[Old Mill Tree Care]

17 hours ago, aspenarb said:

 

We do have a hand in this Al. For many years now kids have been fobbed off with just about anything from computer games to any hair brained activity just to buy their silence and get them from under our feet. Its a far cry from the way my father raised us, he involved us in just about everything he did from a very early age whether tinkering in the garage at weekends or working every day during the school holidays for pocket money. It was simple work ethics instilled in us whereby if we wanted something we had to earn it. There is no want in many youngsters today because they simply don't know the meaning of the word and that seriously impacts on their work ethics. We have all had our heads up our arses far too long and need to slow down a bit, perhaps focus a bit more on the kids.They know or need fuck all because we have taught them fuck all, that's our fault. 

 

Bob

 

Oh I totally agree with you Bob. That's the root problem and reason that we are in the position we're in but we can't change it overnight and I need staff to appear overnight. ?

I had one guy leave in a tantrum recently because he felt undervalued/felt he should be rewarded massively for his short service here. He had no comprehension of the cost to me/my business for his development. It is just a typical example of someone feeling entitled and wanting everything NOW. Of course, if he'd stuck around for another day he'd have discovered just how valued he was and the enormity of what was about to be literally handed to him.

The general attitude of "I deserve it now!" is what really riles me.

Sorry for the rant. ?

[eggsarascal]

4 hours ago, Rough Hewn said:

I really don't believe those figures.
I know plenty of trades men, most on £200+ a day. Most 25 year olds with skills on construction sites are earning that too.
Our conditions are bad
Our wages are shit
Oh look we can't find staff.

Let me explain what happened a couple of weeks ago, someone passed my number on, I got a call, "Hi, my names Simon from xxxxxxx, I've been passed your number by Sam, would you be interested in doing some servicing work us", "yep £200/day plus 50 pence a mile", I never heard back from him, when I looked on their website they charge "from £212" to service a pumping station. I'd do six in a day, £1276 at their starting price, I'd get £300-£400 out of that. How much money do people want to earn?

[Woodworks]

4 hours ago, Rough Hewn said:

I really don't believe those figures.
I know plenty of trades men, most on £200+ a day. Most 25 year olds with skills on construction sites are earning that too.
Our conditions are bad
Our wages are shit
Oh look we can't find staff.

Yes they do look very low. I do kitchen fitting on sites and I am sure the pay others are on is better than posted by Bob but not sure they are on quite as much as £200 (I know I am not). I would take the working conditions of tree work over site work any day though. You end up with trades people often in conflict with each other over space to work, it can be horrid and way more stressful than I have experienced with tree work in open fresh air.