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kevinjohnsonmbe

Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

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18 minutes ago, Ian C said:

Im with Pete on this one, rather than simply throw more kit at the job and have ropes all over the place making the job even harder better training and education is whats needed. what if 2 points fail do we add 3 and so on? utter crap, its more like another knee jerk reaction from people who make more money doing SFA sat in ivory towers because they know best. Whats the AA doing about it Paul? I know you have demonstrated what we do but are you actively telling them this is crap or just accepting it because it the HSE?

Hi Ian, thanks for your post.

 

The AA have an ongoing and open dialogue with HSE regarding the implementation. We have seriously (ish) consider the option of rebuffing the regulator but we don't consider this would be productive, nor advisable, and hence will try to ensure implementation is less painstaking...and costly.

I guess you'd rather the revolution than the evolution approach don't see any real benefit in crossing swords with the regulator...and they will not budge, and have said as much!

 

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27 minutes ago, Craig Johnson said:

if anchor point failure is the problem throwing another rope at it wont help. most trees only have(when removing) one TIP and the second one, below your feet?,miles over the other side? and when your blocking down a stem?

Not the "only" problem Craig, and not only when removing trees :/ 

Your points are valid, as described, and in those situations it might be the RA approach to determine 1 rope is safer...plus the 2ndry anchor of course.

Cheers,

Paul

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Hi Kevin, I think the context is out of kilter here a little.
The 'example' relating to MEWPs is to demonstrate that as industry approach / practice changes so does machinery and equip,emt to reflect such. I acknowledge accidents happen involving MEWPs happen too but hopefully as they become better designed to tree work that will reduce. 
Yep, if you wanna be compliant from tomorrow = 2 ropes to climb.
Sorry, rushed reply as my Horlicks going cold..
Paul

If I'm understanding this right.
Literally every tree firm in the uk is now (from this morning) using invalid insurance if not on two ropes?

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6 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:


If I'm understanding this right.
Literally every tree firm in the uk is now (from this morning) using invalid insurance if not on two ropes?

Unlikely every tree firm as some, mainly in Utilities, do use x2 ropes.

 

Your insurance will usually require you to follow industry good/best practice whilst working...and to hold relevant qualifications, and have undertook training, as applicable. Hence the current guidance and training is what you do day-to-day.

Once guidance, training and qualifications are updated to reflect these changes, which will take years not months (acknowledged by HSE,) then insurers expectations will change accordingly...I presume.

 

Sorry, I have to caveat this by saying if you're unduly concerned then speak to your insurers.  

Edited by AA Teccie (Paul)
text change for clarifictaion

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12 minutes ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Hi Ian, thanks for your post.

 

The AA have an ongoing and open dialogue with HSE regarding the implementation. We have seriously (ish) consider the option of rebuffing the regulator but we don't consider this would be productive, nor advisable, and hence will try to ensure implementation is less painstaking...and costly.

I guess you'd rather the revolution than the evolution approach don't see any real benefit in crossing swords with the regulator...and they will not budge, and have said as much!

 

I don't see this an "evolution" its a totally backword step IMO, better skilled workers is the best move, a bad mechanic doesn't get better by having more spanners!

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5 minutes ago, Ian C said:

I don't see this an "evolution" its a totally backword step IMO, better skilled workers is the best move, a bad mechanic doesn't get better by having more spanners!

I can't argue with that Ian...not that I want to either.

 

Put simply, HSE are initially applying 'rope access' principles to SRT, i.e. back-up / safety line at all times, and at the same time reinforcing the conclusions of research they commissioned in 2004 that 2 ropes are better than 1 which, across the industry as a whole, we essentially chose to ignore and they (HSE) didn't follow through on.

 

PS Do mechanics use spanners anymore :S

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3 hours ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Hmmm, not sure legally where that really leaves you.

 

be mindful of the issue but await publication  of TG1(hopefully very soon)  and use that to inform decision making and practices

Cant really ignore it Paul, the girl in the office has run  off a few copies for the lads to read and the disclaimer is there for them to sign. 

 

Bob

Edited by aspenarb
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2 hours ago, Pete Mctree said:

I have heard that this two rope system has already been introduced within utility work.

Paul, is there any truth in this

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17 minutes ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

PS Do mechanics use spanners anymore :S

yes and I use then raguly, but there again I still be me hands dirty!😂

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