Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

4 minutes ago, Will Heal said:

So this means that when I’m climbing and pruning a small apple tree in Mrs miggins garden I will need to have two anchor points at all times and a third when I’m cutting? What is the point of that? I’ve been there done this when I worked for SSE and it just frustrates me and other climbers. It should be the climbers choice if he/she wants to use two lines

I understand your frustrations, believe me, but, in effect, the law says so..

[Ian C]

Easy to see that these so called experts don’t actually work fir a living but ponce around making those that do life harder! Be interesting in a rescue situation with all those ropes around getting mixed up!

 

Why is it that people who have really have no idea of a job tell those that do how to do it!

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 minute ago, Ian C said:

Easy to see that these so called experts don’t actually work fir a living but ponce around making those that do life harder! Be interesting in a rescue situation with all those ropes around getting mixed up! Why is it that people who have really have no idea of a job tell those that do how to do it!

Hi Ian, in part because they can, and because other sectors of the industry do already so demo'ing it can be done (these are their comments.) Plus, fundamentally, and perhaps simplistically, as several of the accidents they cited involved anchor point failures, the more safe-gaurds the better.

regarding rescue situations, arguably you may have more options availbale to you...appen.

Hope your're well..

Paul

[The avantgardener]

LANTRA have just published a HSE sanctioned workbook which covers the use of two ropes as well as when one rope can be used after extensive risk assessment has been carried out. Rather than SRT they are calling it (SRWP) Stationary Rope Work Positioning and Rescue. 

[TIMON]

Fair comment Kevin but HSE, I expect, will be pragmatic in their application of the changes.

Evening Paul.

Can’t help wondering how ‘pragmatic’ the insurance companies will be in the event of a claim?..

Funny you should mention utility companies. (I wonder if this is where it’s come from?)
I recently heard about a utility company insisting on their climbers using two points of connection at all times (3 when cutting).
Apparently it was because they’d had quite a few climbers falling out of trees. (?!)

The worrying thing about this (IMO) is that some guy in an office, responsible for safety issues a knee jerk reaction (3 tie in points) rather than a systematic investigation tackling the real causes of why their climbers were repeatedly falling . Surely there must have been something fundamentally wrong in their basic climbing/working practices? By introducing the new policy they have merely ‘covered over’ why it was happening in the first place and not addressed the real issues.

Surely the HSE would be serving the industry far better if they could establish the specific causes behind these accidents and address the issues through training and implementing better work practices, rather than just saying
“We don’t know why people fall out of trees so you’ll just have to use another rope”

Sorry for the rant,

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

2 minutes ago, The avantgardener said:

LANTRA have just published a HSE sanctioned workbook which covers the use of two ropes as well as when one rope can be used after extensive risk assessment has been carried out. Rather than SRT they are calling it (SRWP) Stationary Rope Work Positioning and Rescue. 

Thank you, I wasn't aware it had been published. 

[The avantgardener]

1 minute ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Thank you, I wasn't aware it had been published. 

I have connections and get my information delivered by Ninjas.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 minute ago, TIMON said:

 

Evening Paul.

Can’t help wondering how ‘pragmatic’ the insurance companies will be in the event of a claim?..

Funny you should mention utility companies. (I wonder if this is where it’s come from?)
I recently heard about a utility company insisting on their climbers using two points of connection at all times (3 when cutting).
Apparently it was because they’d had quite a few climbers falling out of trees. (?!)

The worrying thing about this (IMO) is that some guy in an office, responsible for safety issues a knee jerk reaction (3 tie in points) rather than a systematic investigation tackling the real causes of why their climbers were repeatedly falling . Surely there must have been something fundamentally wrong in their basic climbing/working practices? By introducing the new policy they have merely ‘covered over’ why it was happening in the first place and not addressed the real issues.

Surely the HSE would be serving the industry far better if they could establish the specific causes behind these accidents and address the issues through training and implementing better work practices, rather than just saying
“We don’t know why people fall out of trees so you’ll just have to use another rope”

Sorry for the rant,



 

 

No apology needed Timon, we too have ranted.

It may be an attempted 'fail-safe' for poor decisions but if it means climbers fall out of trees fewer times then surely it;s worth it.

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

apologies, I will pickup any further posts in the morning.

Paul

[carlos]

climbing around a tree with two 45m ropes anchored in!!! thats going to be hard, frustrating , confusing and probably more dangerous.

if its anchor point failure thats the problem?, then switch to srwp and insist on at least 2 top tie points, that way a bomb proof anchor is achived and the climber can still work the tree easly and use the lanyard whilst cutting.

carl

Edited September 1, 2019 by carlos